Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Sorry…why do you think my post is fake?

a) report it to MN if you believe I am a troll.

b) Yes, I regularly name change and am a longtime user. This name change was inspired by a Chinese drama I’ve just watched (`Till the end of the moon’).

c) My MCH was 25.8, RDW at 15.4% and my transferrin saturation was 10.2%.

To be honest it was posts like yours that nearly led me to becoming severely ill. When I found out about my results and started to post asking for advice I’d get shut down and guilt tripped by evangelical preaches who said I couldn’t possibly have been eating right (despite following Michael Gregers book to the letter) or that I was lying about the fact I was taking the right supplements.

My body just wasn’t processing the B12 or iron form my fortified food/supplements. But now I am eating meat/fish/eggs/dairy my levels are approaching normal and therefore I feel a lot healthier.

What is so hard to believe about that?

You really can't use the it's natural argument sorry. Human beings are about as far away from our natural state as it's possible to be.

If you want to eat animal products naturally, help yourself to any insects you can catch. A small mammal or bird now and again. The odd bird egg. The rest of your diet should be plant based if you want to go the natural way.

Would you allow them to eat octopus? They are extremely intelligent! (Also very tasty if prepared properly!)

I think it's a bit of a strange view point tbh and I was vegetarian for 10 years and pescatarian 10 years after that (now eat meat as became anaemic in pregnancy and iron tablets did not agree with me). But I don't believe in forcing others to have the same life choices as me and would never raise people eating meat around me as I saw it as their choice.

I find the total disregard for innocent animals so disturbing and upsetting on this thread, that I will leave this thread now.

How do you cope with the food chain and innocent animals eating innocent animals?

I agrée that denying beef/pork but allowing chicken just makes NO sense at all.
(Kind of like my friend who doesn't allow her children cows milk, yet fills them up on cheese on toast come snack time- eh?)

You won't let your children eat red meat and force your beliefs onto them as "they're animals" but will allow them to eat chicken andvfish.

Are chiickens and fish not animals?

Animals eat animals. Animals eat their own kind. Animals eat their own babies. What on earth are you talking about? What denotes 'innocence'?

I'm with you on farming methods, but not on eating meat.

Anyway, on your advice, I'm having a good long hard look at myself. You seem so wise.

Haven't RTFT but from the animal welfare point of view chicken is about the worst meat to eat probably followed by pork. There is a health argument for limiting red meat consumption, particularly processed meats, but if you are coming at it solely from an animal welfare perspective you really need to learn a bit more about the poultry industry.
I am omnivorous and I live in a farming area. The only meat I do not eat at all is chicken, nor do I eat commercially produced eggs, even free range ones unless I actually know where they have come from. There are unpleasant elements to all aspects of food production, even arable farming harms wild animals and everyone has to decide for themselves what they find acceptable or not, but to find it acceptable to eat chicken on welfare grounds but not other animals suggests you don't know much about chickens, common farming methods or both. So yes, YABVU.

There are unpleasant elements to all aspects of food production, even arable farming harms wild animals

I think this is a really good point. No diet is vegan. Animals are harmed along the way. Is it better for 1 cow raised in a field to die to make many meals, or to eat a vegan loaf of bread, whose grain involved hundreds or thousands of small animals similar to your child's hamster getting mashed into farming machinery? It's really not as simple as 'I don't eat animal products'. Animals are harmed whichever way you do it.

There are lots of people who don't eat "fake meat" I'm weaning my baby as pescetarian for now, instead of meat he has extra oily fish, eggs, lentils/ lentil pasta, a range of nut butters, tofu etc which provides plenty of protein. No fake meat in sight. I know meat can be nutritious but veggie diets can be too, and often don't include fake meat. I still get lots of comments like yours despite plenty of children only eating meat if it is a crap sausage, breaded or ham from a packet (which seems to be absolutely fine by everyone for some bizarre reason).

I really don't think hundreds of thousands of animals get killed in a couple of scoops of flour 😆. And if you want to do one thing to help the earth, it's give up beef 😁.

I'm vegetarian and I feel strongly about raising my children as vegetarians from a moral and health perspective. I completely appreciate that others have different views but that is mine and it matters to me a lot. My husband isn't vegetarian but accepts we don't have meat in the house and as his only rationale for giving them meat is convenience (we are both happy that they have very healthy varied vegetarian diets) he's agreed to go along with it as it means so much to me. I think I'd be asking what the reasoning is for giving the children meat, if it's about nutrition then maybe you can address his concerns by showing how you meet their needs for protein, iron etc? (My kids do also have multivitamins including iron.) If it's just convenience then maybe it needs to be a more serious discussion where you agree a way forward and then both respect that.

HRTFT but I can categorically tell you as someone who visits the abattoir on a regular basis, cows do not know they are there to be slaughtered. They literally have no idea, are happy to eat drink and settle in the pens before the inevitable.
Before I get a grilling about the environmental impact - we run a carbon neutral farm (AD plant) but I have to be honest and say I'm not fully aware of cancer stats for folk that eat red meat against those that do. We are red tractor assured and regularly inspected by an independent person to ensure the highest welfare standards are met. Just to reiterate my main point though, the cows are definitely not aware of their destiny when at the abattoir.

Oh and we don't do 'fake meat' in our house either (partly because my kids won't touch it!) It's perfectly possible to have a healthy balanced vegetarian or vegan diet without including ultra processed fake meat products.

Whatever you do, don't point out the animals at the zoo to your 2 year old and think that explaining ham is from the pigs, burgers are from the cows etc will 'gently' encourage them to stop wanting to eat meat.

As a vegetation with a meat eating dp and ds, I can tell you there is little more embarrassing in life than a 2 year old shouting 'yummy yummy in my tummy' everytime they see a pig. Plan spectacularly backfired 🙄.

My sister does the same, i think YANBU

@IAmAnIdiot123 🤣🤣🤣🤣 My brother had a small holding and they killed a pig. My niece looked at her chops sadly and said "that was alive, wasn't it?" My brother, remembering his tiny bank balance and freezer full of pork agreed reluctantly. Niece paused, the grinned and said "Delicious, isn't it?"

But I do think that if one member of a family is a vegetarian, everyone in the family eats vegetarian. Who has the time and inclination to cook both. And if the vegetarian is the main cook, they shouldn't have to cook meat. The carnivores can always get their fix outside the home.

Nice story.

Definitely seem to have opened a can of worms here!

A lot seems to have forgotten, or not read, that our children are 2 and 10 months. They're not really at the thinking/cooking for themselves stage yet, so currently we do dictate what they eat.

Also, the ham sandwich wasn't requested by our daughter and denied by me, my partner suggested we pick it for her, going against what we agreed for our children a long time ago

I never wanted them to eat meat, but he did. The chicken and fish thing was our compromise, but now it seems he wants to backtrack on it. Given some of your comments on chicken, I may be rethinking that though!

@Flymeaway4 What's his argument for them eating meat? If I were you, I wouldn't have it. But I am notoriously bolshy.

Why didn’t you assert your own values more? I think it’s made it more difficult for you 💐

Yanbu for the red meat..brilliant decision.
Yabu for thinking chickens and fish don't feel equal horror pain and terror and eating them.

I really don't think hundreds of thousands of animals get killed in a couple of scoops of flour

How many do you suppose it is, @Sugargliderwombat ? To harvest each field of grain? Because, unless it's none, vegan products containing grain are killing animals in their production. You can't really argue against that, it's just what happens when you use land for agriculture. How many souls are lost, and why is it better to harvest a field full of mice who die as a side product, or kill one cow to produce hundreds of meals?