Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

I agree with everything you’ve said and it is unfair for him to backtrack. Different if your child was crying for ham but if she was happy having chicken or egg then why would he bother? Ham isn’t healthy at all

I wouldn't work in a meat processing plant, and I imagine there are many others who wouldn't want to. Why on earth would someone take a job killing animals if they thought it wouldn't be for them and then complain about mental health issues? Farmers also often kill their own stock for food without having breakdowns.

It is easy to see from this thread that the average Brit knows next to nothing about rural life.

Everytime I feel a hypocritical for caring about animals and eating meat I settle on chicken and fish compromise. Despite favouring the taste of red meat by far.
I get it. I would quite happily have someone enforce a no red meat rule for me.

I assume dogs and horses are on your menu as well then?
of course animal intellect is relevant.

Not unreasonable to chose what your children eat, but I think in social settings like that if they eat chicken then stopping them eating a ham sandwich is unreasonable. I don’t have any dietary restrictions but if I did, my family would eat what I ate but outwith me providing food like at parties or social gatherings then they should be able to chose and not feel the odd ones out.

I have chickens. The argument that chickens are not as intelligent as cows is not based in reality.

My husband is a pescatarian and I eat everything and our agreement is that I am very happy eating a mainly veggie/fish diet at home however if I’m out and about and I fancy it, I will eat meat. If our child wants to have what I’m eating it’s a bit hypocritical to say they’re not allowed because I’m eating it so we’re not going to be refusing anything if they ask. My husband is happy with the compromise as we’re mainly a veggie/fishy home anyway so it’s not very often I’ll be eating meat but our logic was that it doesn’t really make sense saying they can’t have something that one of us is eating as how can you justify to a small child that it’s an out of bounds food if they can see one parent eating it. If your husband had agreed to white meat only then your rule would be easily enforced but if they see their dad eating a ham sandwich, how can you really explain to a child that it’s morally the right thing if they can see those rules don’t even apply to everyone in the home let alone outside it.

So many posts saying they should eat meat because Dad does, have I woken up in the 1950s?????

Your view of animal welfare, the reasonable concerns you have about what to feed your children is at least as important as your dh op. Ignore these silly posts. You sound emotionally intelligent and have a developed view - he on the other hand doesn’t sound so bright. Ham is processed meat and shouldn’t be given to children at all.

The mindless decisions people make because they can’t be bothered to think about what they are putting into their children’s bodies scares me, the total absence of critical thinking and ignorance is astounding on here.

Your values matter.

Raise your children to be vegetarian, and have confidence in your ability to parent competently and compassionately.

I’m a dairy free vegetarian, the only supplement I take is one everyone in the UK should take vitamin D. For over ten years I was a fulltime professional athlete, I’m not part time. No diet issues, no deficencies.

Oops, I’m now part time, rather than not part time.

Oh don't be so ridiculous! Children have been eating ham sandwiches for many years, with no ill effects. The OP has not actually said she is raising her children to be vegetarian and she lets them eat chicken and fish. However, she won't let them eat red meat based on what animals she perceives to be "intelligent", so her values are rather suspect anyway.

Why is it so 1950s to say they should eat meat because Dad does, but not 1950s to say they shouldn't eat meat because Mum doesn't? On the subject of silly posts .......

Is this a joke or are you genuinely this ignorant? I can’t tell from your post.

Ham is considered to a carcinogen (known to cause cancer) - it’s in group one which means there is strong evidence it causes cancer.

So Why on gods earth would you give anything to your child that has a risk of cancer??

No one should be feeding their children carcinogens. I can’t believe I am having to point this out to you.

In a rush to leave the house, apologies for typos, but the lamentable education in this country is clearly the reason why we have an obesity and cancer/ health crisis. Too many people have no idea what they are eating.

Maybe the old grey goose should do some research 🧐

The thing you may not know is that most people are getting supplements every day. Bread is fortified with iron, cereals are usually fortified with iron, b vitamins and vitamin D, milk is usually fortified with vitamin D. These are added because most people have a diet too low in these nutrients. People just aren’t aware that they are supplementing. Most women take prenatal vitamins. There is research suggesting that everyone over 50 should take B12. There is a billion dollar supplement industry that is not propped up by vegans. We are very lucky to live in an age where fortified foods and supplements can help us to be as healthy as possible and I can see no logical issue with that.

You are a hypocrite to not eat red meat due to ethical reasons but then eat chicken and fish.

You are posting from an extreme place of privilege if you think everyone has a choice what job they take when they need money. Other than sadists, who would want to kill gentle sentient beings every day? As he said in the article, if you have empathy you have to disassociate but for most people long term that’s going to have an impact. It’s pretty sad you can read an article about someone whose horrific job (one you wouldn’t do but are happy for others to do for you) made him feel suicidal and blame him for working there.

And I know a farmer whose husband killed their animals. She didn’t even kill them but she heard him doing it. He could disassociate (at what cost to him who knows) but she knew each animal was an individual with thoughts, feelings and a personality and understood that harming them for financial gain was wrong. They aren’t together any more but she’s vegan now and has been for years.

The child is your husband's as well. I would encourage a taste of all foods that each of you eat.
A variety of foods is healthy and it is polite to be able to eat a range of foods when dining out.
You can serve your child vegetable enriched meals and beans etc when you are caring for them and your husband should be able to introduce the foods he enjoys.
Once old enough to understand, your child might choose for itself to eat like you or their dad or a mix of both.

I think unless he can respect her values, they shouldn’t be together. Compromising on something so important will lead to resentment.

Chickens are sentient beings and have a terrible life.

Ynbu although I'd just have her be fully vegetarian. It's common enough these days that people will cope!

I don’t really think of it as opposing belief shysters when it comes to children.

More that one approach bans and restricts certain foods completely, before the dc have even had a chance to try them. It’s a valid choice that adults can make for themselves but IS one that makes your diet and social life harder.

And the other allows dc to try everything and decide for themselves what they like or not.

I'm not sure I ever said I was an expert on sheep farming but I'm also not sure that living in a country where agriculture is important and having once worked in a farm shop makes you an expert either.

That aside, when I lived rurally, I lived in a house that was directly opposite a field that was sometimes used to keep sheep on. I also used to see sheep in the fields while I was walking the dog.
I saw lambs shivering in the field with little protection from the weather
I saw sheep limping in the field. The farmer would come, they would get chased round by the sheep dog. I asked him what he was doing and he said checking the sheep but never once did he spot what I had spotted, ie a number of badly limping sheep. Either that or he just didn't bother to treat them because despite being at home a lot and the house being literally feet from the field, never did I see a number of sheep being separated from the flock and treated or taken away to be treated. Or the whole flock being taken to be treated. Maybe they did get treated eventually but from what I saw, they lived a good deal of their life in pain.

The field was next to a river and low lying. It was very wet and had a ditch in it. One day a sheep got stuck in the water logged ditch. A woman was trying to help it. I took my dog home and then went to help. Neither of us could help get that sheep out of the water.
I once called the SSPCA because I was worried about a sheep. The inspector told me that farmers should treat their animals but they often don't. Perhaps he was lying?

Call me a liar if you like. Call me ill-informed. I think it's important that people know the truth about how farming can be and not some misty-eyed version that, at least in some cases, is simply not the case.

And if farmers are aiming for healthy animals, why are they breeding animals that are so prone to a number of health problems and/or keeping them on land for a time at least that is unsuitable for them?
My guess is that because we have an insatiable appetite for cheap meat and something, somewhere has got to give and it's sometimes the welfare of the animals.

I imagine sheep farming is a lot of work for relatively little return and I have empathy for farmers and I'm not farmer bashing and I accept there are good and bad farmers just like in any other industry.

@Theoldgreygoose
And btw, you don't have to know about sheep farming to recognise cruelty when you see it. I used to know a physio in the area I lived. She was no namby-pamby townie like me and had served in the forces but she said she hated treating the farmers. I asked why and she said because they are brutal and treat their animals appallingly. She would ask them how they had done whatever it was that was bothering them and the reply would come back: I kicked a sheep or something similar. I struggle to see why she would lie to me about it.
Not that I am saying all farmers are the same because I am sure they are not.

Maybe talking to farmers in a farm supplies shop while living in a country where agriculture is very important to the economy doesn't give you the whole picture.

I’m vegetarian and my DC eat meat. Not my body, not my choice.