Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Much of the grain that is harvested is used to feed cattle.

I really don't understand the hostility towards a plant-based diet on this thread. Very disappointing.

Yes it’s very disappointing, I would say many don’t feel comfortable with the prospect of paying for the torture and destruction of beautiful animals. So they lash out with random , inaccurate claims as what they are doing is in reality indefensible.

I believe factory farming is indefensible. I also believe humans were meant to eat meat.

Probably @Comedycook but what kind of meat?
Not, in my opinion, modern day meat machines that pass for natural animals these days.
And not in the quantities that many people still eat it.
We also can't eat meat without cooking it, or not many people do at least, and as far as I am aware, we are the only animal that cooks its food.

My sister and I have been vegetarian for 35 years. Our choice due to the way animals were treated and transported back then. My sister’s DC were vegetarian growing up (now adults) and mine (now older teens) didn’t eat any red meat.
Sisters DC and my DC1 now eat red meat but very little of it, my DC2 eats children and fish

I think it was a healthier start for them.
My DC only drank water and no juice when they were little. Now they drink sugary drinks and eat crisps. Their choice. I’ve done my bit and now they can make their own minds up.

If you are happy to compromise on fish and poultry then I think you could be a bit flexible over one ham sandwich at a party. It's not a big deal in that context.

I don't eat red meat either, but mainly because I don't like any of it - and because it is chock full of fat which I do not digest efficiently. In fact just smelling the fat from red meat makes me feel very sick.

I am not happy about the fact that eating meat involves killing - but accept that the whole world is predicated on kill or be killed and that eating other animals is how the world works. I don't necessarily like it, but do accept it.

“My DC2 eats children and fish”.
Well, at least they’re leaving the animals alone😂

Yes, but not all the grain is used to feed cattle. Some of it goes into products eaten by vegans, who claim not to use products manufactured in a way that harms animals.

It's not 'hostility towards a plant based diet' to state the simple fact that vegan food isn't vegan due to the animals harmed in its production. It's just how it is, regardless of how disappointing you might feel it is for that to be stated.

Psychoanalysing those making the claims doesn't affect the veracity of the claims.

It doesn't matter who is saying something or why. It matters whether it's true or not.

No one makes an active 'choice' to eat meat, we eat meat because it is the default. Not eating meat is the deviation, the choice. Your children should be given meat (and dairy) while their bodies are growing. They can choose to be vegetarian if they wish would they get older. But while they are growing, in my opinion, it's neglectful not to give them meat and dairy. Meat eating and dairy should be the default when their bodies are growing.

@FelisCatus0 "But while they are growing, in my opinion, it's neglectful not to give them meat and dairy. Meat eating and dairy should be the default when their bodies are growing."
I'd love to see the scientific research backing up this assertion....

We eat plenty of beef, you get a lot of meat for the cost of one life. Only buy chicken when I can afford free range, preferably organic. Cows have a much better life than most meat chickens!

It's called google. When I was growing up there were always ad campaigns about how important dairy and meat is for growing bodies. It's not something that isn't common knowledge.

How about a compromise where they eat the same as him when he shops and cooks?

Problem is they'll then want him to cook and shop all the time, and he won't want that.

You could split it equally?

I think your reasoning is bizarre as all meat was once an animal; not only red meat. It’s a stupid reason. If it was for health reasons I could understand as too much red meat can be unhealthy but… as it stands, I think you’re being unreasonable and depriving your children of something they may enjoy and which is healthy in moderation, for very odd personal reasons.

(If your partner agreed, I’d say it was fine. But as he doesn’t, YABU.)

I'm wondering why you think they will want him to shop and cook all the time. Is he a better cook? Or will their bodies be craving the nutrients in meat? Vegetarian and vegan food is delicious, I could easily eat a good dhal all week.

If you can't agree though then I would just divide the responsibility like if you were coparenting.

I was a strict vegan for a few years. Now I am mostly plant based with some meat and dairy. I hate factory farming and the damage it does but I accept that humans are omnivores and there are certain nutrients and amino acids that cannot be found in plants.

Honestly, I have never told my kids what they can and cannot eat. I would rather they ate decent meat than UPF fake meat.

"It's called google. When I was growing up there were always ad campaigns about how important dairy and meat is for growing bodies. It's not something that isn't common knowledge."

Yes- there were-and are- a lot of misconceptions around healthy diets! Google will also tell you that nearly a quarter of the world's population is vegetarian-so obviously meat is not vital.

We’re strict vegetarians and we’re dairy free, we do eay honey and eggs from a known source.

The compromise makes sense from a health point of view as I believe chicken is not a carcinogen, however it makes less sense from an ethical point of view. Surely if we were just looking at ethics then British lamb would be your go to least worst option for meat? Even free range chickens are kept in poor conditions, that’s before we consider what happens to male chicks. Fish farming is an ecological disaster, as is trawling, people buy line caught fish, but don’t factor in the bait and how it is caught.

Anyway, it is one of the reasons I personally wouldn’t date someone who ate meat, it can cause also sorts of issues.

What’s the research? I’ve seen research that shows vegan children had lower fat mass, blood cholesterol and fasting glucose levels, and had higher intakes of fibre, vitamin C, folate, carotenoids, unsaturated fats and magnesium. I don’t think I’ve seen any about later in life.

Oh do get over yourself!!! Many of the people who have been eating processed meats like ham are now in their 80s/90s/100s. A ham sandwich now and again most certainly cannot be compared to a life long smoking habit.

Just on iron, I’ve been vegan for 10 years and vegetarian since toddlerhood and my iron levels in pregnancy were perfect, I had a blood test to check a number of my levels including vit D and all were good.