Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Are chickens not animals? Do you believe they’re not intelligent enough to realise they are about to die?

I’m vegetarian. The rest of the family eat meat, that’s their choice. If your DC is eating chicken and fish, then a ham sandwich is exactly the same, so it doesn’t make sense to object tbh. A chicken is no less alive than a pig.

I think the bowel cancer risk is so high from those means that YANBU for that reason alone. Add in the moral problems and your partner should respect that.

ham is a group 1 carcinogen. Other group 1 carcinogens are smoking and alcoholic drinks.

red meat is a 2A carcinogen. Other group 2A are steroids and certain emissions.

https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/#:~:text=Consuming%20too%20much%20red%20and,18%25%20of%20bowel%20cancer%20cases.&text=Processed%20meat%20is%20classified%20as,cause%20them%20to%20be%20carcinogenic.

YANBU to hold your opinions or want them to be the ones that win.

YABU to think that you get to choose what reasonably healthily given options are fed to your child by their equal parent.

It would be fair enough to compromise and say "only high-welfare red meat, not often, and then they can be informed and choose later".

Fwiw, I've owned ex-battery hens. Lots of them dumb as bricks, some very smart and characterful. Sheep, so long as not transported too far, have the nicest living conditions of all red-meat livestock.

I think you’re being a bit silly to be honest (I’m a vegetarian in case that’s relevant!)- chicken farming involves some of the worst cruelty in the industry, it doesn’t make any sense to be happy with chicken but not other meat

Up to you entirely what you feed your children and its not really anyone's business, but I do find though that given the size of small children's stomachs, and the difficulty they can have digesting large amounts of fibre, its hard to get them to eat the volume required of things like dark green leafy veg / pulses etc to get them adequate levels of iron in a meatless diet.

Is there a middle ground you would be comfortable with? Free range / organically reared meat that's had a good life once a week, or something like that? I am not vegetarian but I do tend to only buy good quality meat and we don't eat tons of it.

I agree with your husband, whilst ham is processed and unhealthy, the odd ham sandwich at a party won't do any harm. Don't turn this in to a bigger issue with your husband than it needs to be. You sound quite controlling

You dont have to buy the meat but if its already been turned into a sandwich and going to get thrown in the bin if not eaten what difference does it make, especially if you allow some meats and not others?

Not sure why chickens are getting such a bad deal in your theory OP. They are very intelligent animals.

Red meat is a known carcinogen compared with white meat or fish. I’d go with that argument instead.

You're a fool for having these principles and marrying and having children with someone who doesn't agree.
You have no power.

So child can eat what you want with you and what he wants with him.

It seems hypocritical to me that you feel one animal killed for meat, is more deserving of your moral value, than any other animal that is killed for meat.

I think it should be up to your children whether they eat ham sandwiches or not.

It's batshit to me that you'll let them eat chicken and fish but not pork what's the difference?

Does seem a bit skewed logic.

On the basis that kids can be fussy eaters and have their own likes and dislikes, I wouldn't want to limit their food choices to just what I would eat.

By all means explain why you are veggie/vegan but let them make their own choices.

No, it’s also up to her partner as they’re 50% his kids too - Mum doesn’t automatically have the final say.

YABU OP. Let them eat the foods they want, then they can decide when they’re older.
Forcing your beliefs on children is awful, be it food or religion.

YABU as you are being contradictory. There are environmental reasons why your kids shouldn't eat any meat particularly fish.

Anyway as they already eat some meat let them eat ham sandwiches and whatever, then explain to them the many reasons to have a vegetarian diet.

Btw I know from my DD some vegetarian processed products taste better than the meat equivalents.

Yup, YABU and ridiculous and I would override that (though I wouldn’t end up in that situation anyway).

According to the OP is because pigs are intelligent though it appears the OP hasn't heard of the environmental aspect of obtaining fish.

The distinction between chickens and red meat is arbitrary and ridiculous. Also, you can’t veto what parenting choices the other patent makes; provided they are objectively safe.

I met some (ex egg industry) chickens at a sanctuary yesterday, they were very sweet and friendly. Chickens bred for meat have an absolutely horrendous short life, they have been selectively bred so that they have an insatiable appetite and gain weight fast, they can barely support their own weight and would potentially eat themselves to death if allowed to. Sanctuaries find it very hard to look after chickens bred for the meat industry as their bodies make it hard for them to comfortably live 😢

If you have a problem with the death of baby animals then you’d avoid eggs as they involve the grinding up alive or gassing of newly hatched male chicks which are of no use. Much of the dairy industry involves very young calves being killed.

Fish feel pain too of course. I agree with the quote “The question is not, Can they reason?, nor Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?”

I think being morally consistent would help the argument with your husband.

I agree that this is illogical.What is your reason for being a vegetarian? Why do you think your way of life has more value than that of the children's father?
Pigs are often rather well cared for in this country whereas chickens are not always.

Not only are you hypocritical but you are not allowing your DH to make decisions about what his own children eat. Why is your opinion the only one allowed in your house?

That’s ridiculous! Why do animals need an IQ test before you decide to eat them or not? Feed your children what you want or don’t want, but using a cow’s IQ as a reason not to eat it is as wacky as it gets!

I think what your DC eat at home is up to you.
However, you'll struggle to control what they eat outside your home as they get older.

Bread and most cereals are fortified with iron (not for the benefits of vegans, but because it is difficult to get most people/ children to eat enough from other sources).

Yep as I said - batshit