Not to want our children to eat red meat?

[Flymeaway4]

I'm vegetarian, have been for 20 years, partner is not. Since before they were born, I've said I'll let them have chicken, fish etc, but not red meat including pork. Once they're old enough to properly understand that meat was once an animal, then they can decide for themselves whether they want to eat red meat too, or be vege if they like, their choice. Partner thinks I'm ridiculous and said "why can't she have a ham sandwich" at a party yesterday, "what harm will it do". There were plenty of other options there anyway: chicken, cheese and egg sandwiches, quiche, fruit etc.

In case you think it's relevant, my reasoning behind no red meat is that I think cows and pigs are too intelligent, they know exactly what is happening when they arrive at the abattoir and I think that's just too cruel (and lambs are babies). Allowing chicken and fish, until they can make their own informed decision, was my compromise. If it were purely up to me, I'd be happy raising them vege!

So, am I being unreasonable?

Mainly eat off carbs.. what does that even mean?

What about if it came from a cow or pig that happened to be a bit dim?

On the flip side, whilst you’re merrily munching on carrots or whatever do you not realise plants are highly sophisticated organisms?

Although the logic behind your argument is flawed, I know many people who eat meat but not certain meats. Lots of ‘I only eat beef and chicken, I’d never eat lamb or duck as they’re cute’. Or people that think eating dog or rabbit is awful because ‘they’re pets’. It makes no sense to me but others have some sort of hierarchy based on something in their head.

And the chicken and fishes are not animals or what?

All you terrible awful thoughtless parents allowing ham sandwiches at a party buffet.

DO BETTER

I'm a lifelong vegetarian and brought my kids up veggie to the point they were aware what meat was/where it came from etc. and then they could choose. two of the three now eat meat and fish, and my autistic son eats chicken nuggets only. I'm not disappointed that they've chosen to eat meat, but I buy as high quality as I can for them and they do still have some veggie meals.

I find some attitudes towards raising your kids vegetarian strange, as it's only because eating meat is seen as the 'default' way to raise children. Doesn't mean it's better, as long as vegetarianism is done properly with consideration of food groups and vitamins etc.

YANBU to raise your kids full veg or your own version without red meat. However, there’s always going to be a bit of slack cut out of the home and kids parties are their own challenge.

I would have let a ham sandwich at a party slide tbh.

Chickens go to slaughter at around 5 weeks. They have been bred to grow at astronomical speed. But despite their size, they are still very much babies as well.
YABU

YANBU I see the logic.

Jesus christ.

Did say feed them ham sandwiches every day? No I didn’t. I just gave a few examples, such as a party where food is provided. My child is normal weight and perfectly fine thank you. No lazy parenting here. Kids that young can be very difficult and fussy sometimes it’s just about surviving the day.

Also, do you really think there is a huge difference in calories between a ham sandwich and a cheese sandwich?

Processed meats like ham are right up there with smoking healthwise so yanbu in that aspect.

I am probably missing the point but you can’t be all holier than thou just because you are veggie. You are aware just how awful the dairy industry is don’t you? All that dairy consumed is pumped full of hormones. Imagine being a poor dairy cow, constantly pregnant, constantly being milked only for your dear babies to be taken from you and killed. Cows are beautiful and don’t deserve to live like that so humans can consume their milk.

Also, do you really think there is a huge difference in calories between a ham sandwich and a cheese sandwich?”

There usually is. Cheese is much more calorific (missing point of thread 😁)

I think you're being ridiculous and risk making yourselves, and them, a laughing stock. When you are in control of what they're eating, fine. But at parties let them have what they like. As they get older they won't thank you for this attitude.

They are really not.
Taken from BBC:
How does it compare with tobacco?
According to Cancer Research UK, 21% of bowel cancers and 3% of all cancers in the UK are caused by eating red or processed meats. By comparison, they report that 86% of lung cancers and 19% of all cancers in the UK are caused by tobacco.

I think you're being very unreasonable in forcing your opinion on your children.
They should be able to eat meat of any variety if they wish.
I hate sardines, should I ban my kids from eating them and demand that they eat kipper's instead? Of course not.
You're also very naive regarding animals and the food chain process, what makes you think that one animal is worthy of being slaughtered and another one isn't?
All living things feel pain.
You're being naive at best and a bully at worse.

Environmentally/ethically you are better off with beef and lamb (assuming British) than chicken and fish... I'd probably ditch dairy before red meat on ethical grounds.

Our three were brought up as veggie. Like you, we told them when they were older that they were welcome to try meat at other people's houses etc but no meat at home.

By old enough, I mean they were old enough to join in discussions about meat eating and the realities of animal farming. We always provided good quality home-cooked veggie food and they liked animals so they always said, of their own volition, why would you eat them?

Aside from issues of welfare, meat is likely to contain antibiotics and hormones and it really isn't good for health or necessary in a varied diet. All my kids are still ardently veggie or vegan and incredibly healthy and full of life. We made the right decision, fortunately DH and I agreed. Maybe you could encourage your partner to do a bit of research and think about it.

YANBU to discourage meat eating in general, and I would say this from a climate perspective. Your kids will likely encounter a very different world from the one we live in now.

Your current reasoning is bonkers (and entirely unethical) as it presumes that lower intelligence justifies cruelty. The ethics around vegetarianism rests on sentience and the capacity to experience suffering, which both chickens and fish have.

My DS hasn't eaten meat the whole of his 40 years. He grew up vegetarian like me. He is extremely fit and healthy.
I wouldn't want him eating all the processed meat, processed vegetarian and vegan products and crap that is 90% of a supermarket these days.
He cooks all his food fresh and is much better for it. I think its processed food you need to worry about.

Fish, suffering & sentience

Poultry sentience & intelligence

YABU purely from the fact you’ve made it so confusing for your poor DC

we are in the same position and my DH would never dream of

when you come to explain to them, how are you going to reason that some animals are ok and not others?

the next thing might make me sound like I’m being snotty but I am genuinely just interested in your view point…

you allow chicken - do you actually know anything about the broiler chicken industry where the animals have been bred to the extreme so a large majority of them live in excruciating pain? Their lifespan is about 11-14 weeks I think because of their accelerated growth rates. If you do know this how do you justify eating chicken but not pork

I’m all for eating meat of you understand where it comes from - but you can’t just selectively choose a species that’s ok and ones that aren’t and expect your kids to get it

Personally I think it's weird to say one type of meat is ok and another is not.

I prefer my kids to not eat too many ultra processed foods so don't buy ham at home but would let them eat at a party.

Loving the anecdotes of long lived vegetarians, of course there are, it's a numbers game, and a genetics game. I have several Italian relatives all lived into their late 90's and early 100's, all ate processed meat, proscuitto, salami, every day, some of them also smoked like chimneys. My English GM lived independently until she died aged 103, she also, being a farmer, had a consistent diet of meat, dairy, and eggs. Anecdotes prove nothing.

They will probably end up anaemic or vitamin deficient then.

You are being ridiculous, humans evolved to eat and do in fact need meat to be healthy