To tell those who lecture me on vaping to Fuck Off

[Dogsitterwoes]

AIBU. No, let them lecture you
YANBU - Yes, be rude to them

I'm in my 50s and was a long term smoker. I switched to vaping in January. I am considerate and only vape outdoors and move away from other people or into a smoking area. People sometimes
comment, there's a brief convo around my giving up smoking, and 9 out of 10 respond nicely in a 'well done you' kind of way.

The 1 out of 10 though start lecturing me on the evils of vaping. These can be complete strangers, or acquaintances. They go on and on.
Usual themes:

1. Just as bad for you or worse for you than smoking.
2. Children are vaping.
3. Environmental impact of disposables.

I respond politely. I acknowledge there is a concern around all of this, and
1 - I know they aren't exactly good for me but I think they are not as bad as cigarettes, and it's my intension to also stop vaping this year
2 - I agree the manufacturer's should stop targeting non-smokers with the sweet flavours
3 - I agree, I use a rechargeable, but there's probably a lot more all of us could be doing for the environment.

But they do not let it drop. I've literally been lectured at on and on.

YANBU to stop being polite after my initial response and tell them that if I stopped vaping today, I'd be back on the fags tomorrow so mind their own fucking business?

Oh well never mind! And you do know that it can only be an actual debate if you let both sides of the debate have their opinions?!

I do like to listen to both sides of an argument - when they are well reasoned and intelligently delivered. You just keep saying the same crap over and over with zero substance. You are not debating.

I agree that both smokers and vapers are very much anti-social! (And selfish!) The real effects of vaping on the human body will be revealed soon. And yes they did once say that smoking was healthy - given to children like sweets in the 50’s/60’s and even encouraged to smoke to suppress appetite to lose weight! Ugh gross!!

As do you! I didn’t realise I had to change my wording on every single comment - oh well….

You’re also a hypocrite because you are not listening to anything that the other side is saying - you’ve been given statistics, very well reasoned arguments, lots of information on how effective vaping is for smoking cessation etc etc and you haven’t taken in a word of it. You just keep blindly and dumbly decrying “vaping is vile and stinky” and tbh, it’s a little grating.

But they're not smoking if they're vaping, because it's not smoke, it's water vapour. So if nicotine patches, gum etc aren't smoking, then neither is vaping.

Nicotine isnt the defining feature of smoking.
Smoke is.
It's why it's called smoking and not nicotining.

There are vapes that do not contain nicotine. There are cigarettes (herbal) which do not contain nicotine.
You are still vaping or smoking when you use them.
Nicotine not present.

People who smoke weed are still smoking. Nicotine not present.

You are not smoking when you chew nicotine gum or stick on a nicotine patch. Nicotine present, smoking not present.

Nicotine, although most certainly important (and I have not suggested otherwise) is not THE defining feature of smoking.

I have not said it isnt linked, I'm not even denying that nicotine is the addictive element, i'm saying that vaping isnt smoking regardless of whether or not nicotine is involved because the defining act of smoking is shoving something into your gob and setting fire to it.

And at no point have I suggested otherwise

The first time you said it you said the defining part was tobacco. That's what I was taking issue with

Some people on here are just determined to say vaping is "disgusting ", wasting our time.

Again, we're proud that we've managed to give up smoking for something less dangerous. I'll await these studies that have been mentioned regarding how dangerous vaping is, but in the meantime I'm sure that it's healthier than smoking.

My mum had asthma from inhaling my father's smoke, funnily enough me vaping around her doesn't affect her at all.

The NHS are promoting vaping as a smoking cessation method.

It's my business how often I vape. As previously stated you don't get as big a hit from vaping as you do from cigarettes.

I'm tired of the whole popcorn lung tales, they've been proven incorrect, as they were only linked to eliquid sold illegally in the US, mainly containing cannabis, from what I've read.

I don't drink a lot, maybe 2 units every 3 to 4 weeks, I don't gamble or spend a lot of money on unhealthy food, takeaways etc. I don't subohm vape, my small pen ecig doesn't produce huge clouds of vapour and I don't vape in crowds.

As I said earlier there has never been a case of popcorn lung outside of the popcorn industry. It's an industrial disease caused by industrial level exposure to diacetyl

The American vape deaths were THC cartridges that had been suspended in oil bases by complete cowboys

I stopped smoking 20 years ago. I started vaping 4 months ago. I love taste. It’s curbed my hunger and I’ve lost almost 2 stones in weight so I’m happy. I don’t vape in public though, it’s my dirty little secret

A completely unforeseen effect for me was how much less sweets I eat. It was obviously tickling some sugar reward centre somewhere😅

According to definition, it is.
So I guess take the issue up with the sources rather than the messenger.

Brilliant. I no longer crave biscuits, chocolate or sweets either! There are obviously some benefits 😁 I really like the sickly sweet ones like gummy bear or cherry ice yum

You've misunderstood what I've said from the start though.

And you also just said that smoking is definitely a load of other things in your post before. 😅

This is really pointless. Vaping is great, smoking is great too, they're definitely not the same thing because you know, science but it's irrelevant to what I was saying.

I haven't misunderstood, I have disagreed.

You believe that nicotine is more of a defining feature of smoking than tobacco.

This is why right underneath my statement that "nicotine is not the defining feature of smoking, tobacco is" you wrote "I disagree with your final statement"

I do not agree with you.
Not because I dont "understand", but because I don't "agree".

And yes, I have even managed to give examples of smoking that doesn't include nicotine and nicotine absorption that doesn't include smoking.
It was done to highlight the existence of outliers.
I am unsure how you've interpreted this as the inclusion of the sweat emoji is odd.

I do agree with is that this exchange is pointless and that vaping and smoking are not the same thing.
That was precisely the point I was making prior to your intervention.

I wouldn’t ever berate someone for vaping.

I do think they look silly, like adults sucking on dummies. And I certainly won’t give anyone a medal for using one. But I keep my views to myself.

Others have addressed your erroneous belief that smoking is anything other than inhaling smoke from burning matter, so I'll leave that one there.

most vapers consume more nicotine then when they consumed cigarettes or tobacco and become more addicted as a result.

This is not true. Here's a relatively recent study that concludes: Advanced e-cigarettes delivered significantly more nicotine than first-generation devices but less than combustible cigarettes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6657878/

As well as delivering less nicotine, vaping delivers it in a much gentler fashion so it doesn't give the vaper a massive, sharp, hyperaddictive hit. That's even apparent from the graph below that shows the mean blood nicotine level of all the participants in the three groups. It's worth scrolling down the study and looking at the graphs for individual participants to get a better idea of the difference.

'Smokers binge on nicotine, vapers graze' as a brilliant woman once said.

There is no point in using NRT if it still leaves you withdrawing. That's a sign you're not using enough. Most NRT users fail because they don't use enough for long enough. The idea is to kill the cravings while you deal with the behavioural habit and only once you've cracked that, to taper down slowly. It's worth also noting that long term use of NRT is very well recognised as a harm reduction strategy for those who are so heavily addicted that they will always be susceptible to relapse. Long term vaping fulfills the same function but is more effective and a lot more enjoyable.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction

No, nicotine is not completely harmless. It has a very similar harm profile to caffeine.

I swear if someone wrote 'Vaping makes your head fall off' you'd be there saying 'Yes, exactly!!! It's disgusting!!' 😂

Well that's a shame. For a brief while there you sounded quite sensible.

Why are you so intent on insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with you? How horrible

I do agree with PP that particularly with disposables and 20mg nic salts that people are becoming more addicted than ever. I vaped in the cloud days and everyone was on 3mg and going hours without a vape (long haul flight) was nothing like going for hours without a cigarette because nicotine (in its non salt state) has a fairly weak addictive potential at those concentrations.

I'm not sure about this. Before the days of sub-ohming most vapers used much higher strengths but got through a lot less liquid because they were vaping at much lower power. Some of us still vape like that. It wasn't unusual for someone to start on 24mg (before TPD) and taper down from there.

I remember years ago a bunch of us on the stop smoking topic worked out how much nicotine we were getting through each day - strength x volume and between the 3-6mg Big Cloud people and the 12-18mg mouth-to-lung people it all came out roughly the same.

I've never tried nic salts but my understanding is that they just make high strength liquids a bit smoother to vape. I suppose if that means they are easier to vape at higher power, i.e. getting through more high strength liquid, then that could make them more addictive. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the salt state itself would cause them to be more addictive though.

Does anybody know how many watts an elfbar vapes at?

So are all the self righteous pp on here going to stop driving their cars, stop flying on holiday, stop eating junk food for the sake of all our health? No? Didn't think so. So STOP moralsing about vapes which have been PROVEN to be 95% safer than cigarettes.I

And yes, I agree, they shouldn't be marketed or sold to minors, but that's a different issue.

@PencilsInSpace 9 watts apparently
I vape 10mg at 11.5