To tell those who lecture me on vaping to Fuck Off

[Dogsitterwoes]

AIBU. No, let them lecture you
YANBU - Yes, be rude to them

I'm in my 50s and was a long term smoker. I switched to vaping in January. I am considerate and only vape outdoors and move away from other people or into a smoking area. People sometimes
comment, there's a brief convo around my giving up smoking, and 9 out of 10 respond nicely in a 'well done you' kind of way.

The 1 out of 10 though start lecturing me on the evils of vaping. These can be complete strangers, or acquaintances. They go on and on.
Usual themes:

1. Just as bad for you or worse for you than smoking.
2. Children are vaping.
3. Environmental impact of disposables.

I respond politely. I acknowledge there is a concern around all of this, and
1 - I know they aren't exactly good for me but I think they are not as bad as cigarettes, and it's my intension to also stop vaping this year
2 - I agree the manufacturer's should stop targeting non-smokers with the sweet flavours
3 - I agree, I use a rechargeable, but there's probably a lot more all of us could be doing for the environment.

But they do not let it drop. I've literally been lectured at on and on.

YANBU to stop being polite after my initial response and tell them that if I stopped vaping today, I'd be back on the fags tomorrow so mind their own fucking business?

Mybusyday You're a clinician who doesn't know the difference between smoking and vaping?😂

Your next door neighbour's vape does NOT come through your window, seek you out and choke you.

Your clothes do not reek of vape steam.

Blimey, you managed to say something true and useful

There is indeed a complex relationship between smoking and mental health, and between poverty and both of these. Smoking is still the biggest driver in health inequalities and is a huge factor in the 10-20 years loss of lifespan in those with chronic MH conditions.

While smoking rates have fallen among the general population, prevalence remains stubbornly high at around 40% in those with serious MH conditions and over 60% among people with schizophrenia. And it kills half of them.

https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/smoking-and-mental-health

Clearly this deserves much more serious attention than your sneery, rage filled posts. Here's some reading for you:

The Stolen Years: The Mental Health and Smoking Action Report
ASH, 2016

https://ash.org.uk/uploads/MHreport29-07-16.pdf?v=1648129334

The report is endorsed by:

Action on Smoking and Health
Association of Directors of Public Health
British Heart Foundation
Cancer Research UK
Centre for Mental Health
Chartered Institute of Environmental Health
College of Mental Health Pharmacy
College of Occupational Therapists
Faculty of Public Health
Fresh North East
Healthier Futures
Mental Health Foundation
Mental Health Nurses Association
Mental Health Providers Forum
National Centre for Smoking Cessation and Training (NCSCT)
Primary Care Respiratory Society UK
Public Health Action
Rethink Mental Illness
Royal College of General Practitioners
Royal College of Nursing
Royal College of Physicians
Royal College of Psychiatrists
Smokefree Yorkshire & Humber
Tobacco Control Collaborating Centre
UK Centre for Tobacco and Alcohol Studies (UKCTAS)
Unite in Health
York Mental Health & Addictions Research Group

So as a 'clinician' I expect you will give it your full attention. If you can't be bothered to read it, here are a couple of quotes:

'The higher levels of addiction among those with a mental health condition can mean that the fears people have they will not be successful at quitting are more likely to be realised. Access to appropriate medication and alternative sources of nicotine (such as electronic cigarettes) is therefore important in managing the physical symptoms of nicotine addiction. Too few people are using adequate levels of nicotine and more needs to be done to improve access to combat false perceptions of harm from nicotine held by both professionals and smokers.'

'Evidence based information should be available to all those with a mental health condition about a range of alternative nicotine containing products including electronic cigarettes.'

'All health and social care professionals should provide accurate advice on the relative risks of smoking and e-cigarette use, and provide effective referral routes into stop smoking services'

I'm sure as a 'clinician' you will be especially reflecting on that last quote.

Couple of screenshots:

@PencilsInSpace but, but, you’re using a rational and logical argument… that’s not how things are done on here!!

in all seriousness, what an interesting post. The main take away being that any actual clinician worth their salt should follow official guidelines and recommend the use of NRT such as VAPING to a patient that is a smoker? Interesting…

It all sounds weirdly top secret doesn't it?

Maybe she is MI6. Although I’m not sure that publishing fictional data on vaping is part of their remit.

Really don’t give a fuck if you believe me or not

of course I know the difference! Both are disgusting and vile. And yes and yes you don’t know what you are talking about

No definitely not M16 I’m afraid to burst your bubble

You can't be a very busy 'clinician' with the number of posts you have managed on here.....I doubt if you leave the house very often just in case someone vapes on your washing 😂

YANBU. However, I can't stand having to walk through clouds left behind vapes.

Absolutely!

Smoking causes very well known, very serious health risks. Half of all long term smokers eventually die from it, losing on average a decade of life.

Smokers living in poverty and/or with serious MH conditions are much, much more likely to be heavily addicted and to have much more difficulty quitting. Shaming strategies may have worked for the casual smokers but they don't work for these groups. They already feel shit about themselves, that's half the reason they smoke.

It would be completely immoral to stand in the way of a technology that, even if some risks are identified in 30 years time, is vanishingly unlikely to be anywhere near as risky as regular, daily smoke inhalation, and which is an extremely popular and successful method of stopping smoking, even among groups where smoking prevalence has remained stubbornly high.

I was looking for something from Louise Ross, who pioneered 'vape friendly' stop smoking services in the UK and who I think deserves all the awards going. I found this excellent talk from 2020 - I didn't know she had been so unwell but I'm glad she made a good recovery.

I'm sure this will boil some people's piss but unless they have her frontline experience I don't care.

There is no way vaping is as bad for a person as smoking even 10 cigarettes a day.
The nhs are actively pushing it as a stop smoking method in my area and it’s also much cheaper than even roll up cigarettes, the smell is no where near as bad.
ive been vaping for about 8 years, yes I’m still addicted to nicotine but it’s not the nicotine in cigarettes that kills people it’s the 200 other chemicals and waste from actively burning any substance to breath it in.
I stick with the same flavours and use small devices, rechargeable imitations of the disposables and nic salt liquids are my new go to, it doesn’t make big clouds.
I’ve not had anyone comment except a couple of people in my family, I just laugh it off, they booze i vape.
I work in a city centre and the smell from my tiny cola flavoured vape are the least of the worry of most people around the middle of town, most of the place is filthy with grime, litter, food places emitting unpleasant smells, I actually saw a human shit on the way in one of the squares last week, plus smokers and weed smokers and the fruit and fish market all much more unpleasant.
Ive stopped buying disposables because of the environmental impact of all those batteries but other than I doubt I’ll ever fully stop.

Also there are no studies to show that using tampons is safe, yet millions of women do that everyday, they are made with bleached cotton wool and who knows what else but nobody seems to mind.

I don’t vape but I genuinely don’t believe your little cola flavoured vape is bothering anyone. And well done for quitting smoking!

Clinicians don’t work 24 hour a day you know

What has changed since 2020 is the huge rise in disposables and the attraction of these to children. These are serious problems which need solving but it's important not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

There is a definite need for a very easy to use, effective, ready-to-vape kit that is both cheaper than a packet of fags and easier to buy. Otherwise many smokers just will not take the risk because if it doesn't work for them they will still need to buy fags. That doesn't mean they need to be in a big multicoloured display on the front of the counter next to the sweeties. That doesn't mean it's OK to be throwing away countless perfectly rechargeable Li-ion batteries.

We could keep all the flavours but not advertise them like sweeties. We could keep disposables but introduce a compulsory deposit-return scheme so most of the batteries get recharged and sent out again, or properly recycled when they are no longer viable.

We could ditch the TPD and permit the sale of 30, 50, 100ml bottles of nicotine eliquid which would incentivise sale of refillables. We could remove the 20mg limit on strength which has incentivised low strength, high powered sub-ohm vaping (Big Clouds) over high strength, low powered mouth-to-lung vaping (more useful and accessible for actual smokers seeking to quit, far less annoying for others). The (credible) potential possible health risks that have been raised regarding vaping have not been to do with nicotine they have been to do with flavourings. If that is where the potential risk is then it makes sense to vape low-volume, high-strength rather than high-volume, low strength.

Mostly, we could properly fund Trading Standards who are charged with prosecuting businesses that sell vapes illegally to children. They are also charged with prosecuting businesses that illegally sell alcohol and cigarettes to children, neither of which problems have gone away at all, despite certain people having lost their heads about vaping.

@PencilsInSpace definitely
I started before TPD and was on 18mg. Now on 10mg and usually buy from triphammer
I've found a workaround and buy 72 nic strength and mix it into a short fill
I'm not exact but usually get somewhere between 8-12mg which works fine

But if I was new, I wouldn't have figured all that out

Where are you getting 72mg from?

Nicotine hub or everything liquid

Thank you!

No prob! I started looking because years ago I loved Digbys juices and they did one called the king but it vanished in 10ml bottles
I messaged them and they suggested where to buy the nicotine and to get a short fill from them
Then I just got a 5ml syringe and use that to add and mix. Cheaper but not tricky to do

A battery return for used disposables would be a good thing that people would go for, much easier than bottles; you could shove them all in a pocket rather than a box or bag for life like with the bottles.
Give it 10 years someone in power will catch on and try to make that work 😕

Thank you so much for this, I didn't realise DIY was still viable - and I've been vaping for a decade! Nobody new to vaping would be able to figure this out, or even realise it was an option.

Definitely not, I didn't even know until I asked them. And it's cheaper too, plus I can buy all the tasty looking shortfalls I always eye up
5ml of that nicotine to a 50ml shortfall gives you 7mg strength

The incessant rise of vaping gives me asthma attacks. Yes even outside.

Some people need them every 20 seconds. It's a ridiculous addiction that so many are chained to. They're full of chemicals we don't know the long term effects of

I think tested brands should be available on prescription in set amounts to help quit smoking and the rest banned. Their use is great for quitting but not when you become addicted indefinitely.

Some countries do it this way.