AIBU to expect some level of household contribution from my 12/13 year olds?

[Guiltridden12345]

I’m being driven nuts. I work part time, at home, 3-4 days. The extra day I spend doing all the usual household shit, mental load stuff of meal planning, shopping, cooking, washing, organising etc. partner works massive hours for good pay which allows me to work part time. I accept the drudge responsibility as a quid pro quo but am starting to expect more from my family as they grow up.

I expect the kids to make their beds, empty their laundry into laundry basket, and clear up after themselves - ie don’t leave shoes/socks/bags/dirty plates etc around. I occasionally get them to wash up etc after a family meal, empty dishwasher, sweep up but it’s not daily or even weekly if I think about it. But they leave a trail of mess like Hansel and gretel breadcrumbs. I am like a broken record. Jam pots left with no lid in height of fly season. Shoes thrown off wherever. Socks removed and dropped wherever they fall. Dirty plates left on side etc. glasses/plates/wrappers left around/ wet towels on floor. Lights left blazing on when nowhere to be seen. And so on.

had a gentle word with both kids last night, saying pls clear up after yourselves, explaining that their hidden message is ‘mum will do it’ when they leave their shit around. Which is insulting to me. This morning - socks still over floor from last night that I’d ask to be cleared, lid left off jam with a fly in it and I finally lost my shit when my 13 year old left her breakfast things next to me as I loaded the dishwasher I had just emptied. She said ‘alright mum, it’s just a plate’ but it’s not just a fucking plate, it’s all the plates and my constant job of clearing up after two people who think they have a maid. They are busy with activities and socials (which I rank as v important for teens esp post covid) and I often find myself doing stuff like picking up socks while they are out so they don’t delay bedtime when they are back. Realise this isn’t helping but I don’t want one issue (mess) impacting another (the constant nag to pack bag, have a shower, get ready for bed at a decent time or leaving for school on time which is another constant bloody nag.

Don’t even get me started on having to micro manage homework, they don’t get a lot but if I didn’t chase them - and say no socials at weekends til it’s done- I’m pretty sure it would be overlooked.

I do phone bans as a sanction for bad behaviour. But I’m fed up with sanctions and nagging and negativity - I just want my children to stop being so bloody entitled and at least look after themselves/stop creating a personal mess?

i am fed up to the back teeth of nagging. I’m absolutely emotionally exhausted by it. I wonder if my expectations are unreasonable with their naturally selfish developing frontal lobes?

AIBU? If not, please tell me how to get them on board in a more positive, conciliatory way which doesn’t just get ignored after a day or create resentment?

Give them a list of tasks to do daily and weekly, linked to pocket money or screen time.
YABU to expect initiative from them to "help" you.

This isn't unusual.
Incentives work better than sanctions.
Some things you will just have to do - like the jam lid.
Approach it differently.
Pick a time - if you all eat together in the evening for example - 5 minutes before food is ready, they have to pick up and tidy up. Socks/papers etc.
Once a week/fortnight - tidy their room. Some kids work well for linking pocket money to chores, others don't.
But really don't expect them to do stuff by their own intuition, that's just not realistic 😁

The main tasks my 14 yo has (aside from her own bedroom) are clearing the dish washer, putting her washing outside her room and putting her washing away. So not a lot!

The 9 yo does things like helping lay the table and taking things to the outside bins. Probably should be doing more!

Both help put the shopping away if they are there when it comes.

I do get moaning because 14 apparently has soooo much homework and other cerebral things to do (she is good in that respect) but I think she has to do something at that age!

If you work 3/4 days OP, you are practically full-time. But even if you dudnt work, it drives people mad constantly picking up sucks and dishes etc. Teens of that age just don't get it though. The nagging in its self is exhausting, as you describe.

If I were you I would try a list, as described above. Also, get a cleaner in, at least once a week.

I know you say the activities are important but I wonder if it would be a wake up call to them if they had to miss a session or social event because they had to spend the time tidying up after themselves? It’s a more natural consequence than a phone sanction.
Leaving the lid off the jam repeatedly = not buying any more jam

I think YABU to expect anything different given their ages. Give it another decade or so and they'll grow out of it but meantime you have to just accept that this is a phase while they grow into adults.

You end by saying you're fed up with negativity and nagging. If that's the problem, you have the power to solve it - stop being negative, stop nagging. There's a great book by the Arbinger Institute you should read about "thinking outside the box" - basically people get worked up because of their expectations of others are never met, the simple way to solve this is to accept responsibility for whatever task you expected them to do, that way it's no longer their fault so you no longer have to waste your energy getting upset at them.

I agree they need a list of explicit tasks, not a fuzzy generalised “clean up after yourselves”

I would not link it to pocket money- this is unpaid labour in the real world so why set up the expectation that cleaning up, washing up, laundry and so on comes with a reward? It doesn’t.

To get buy in, have a family meeting where you have a list of tasks you think they could take over and then let them pick which tasks/how to divide the tasks up between themselves.

I would link completing tasks with social life & activities though. Like no you can’t go see your friends until you get this and that done. The message needs to be you can’t play all day and ignore basic life chores like keeping a clean and tidy living space or cooking.

Have a discussion when dividing up tasks around, things like for dirty plates and cups, should everyone just get theirs rinsed and into the dishwasher or should one person do a sweep of the house every evening to collect these all up? So some things can be actual jobs, and others can be an everyone do their own.

If you give them some agency, they will be more likely to do it. I think too that your DH needs to be at this family meeting and he needs to be a role model by taking on a couple of jobs. I know he works long hours, but if he does nothing around the house he’s role modelling that if you are busy enough, then mum will do it. So I think your teens are being busier than they need to be because they think being busy is a valid excuse to do nothing about the house. It needs to be driven home that being part of a family means everyone doing their bit.

I agree with Jazbay. My DD gets £5 a week pocket money and for that she has to

Do all her homework
Not get DTs at school
Be polite to me and DH
Keep her room tidy
Put her used plates/ cups in the dishwasher
Generally tidy up after herself

If she doesn't do these things, she doesn't get her pocket money.

If she wants more than her £5 a week, she has to do extra jobs. Eg clean the car, extra housework.

I work so the washing isn't always up to date so if she needs something washed, she'll also put a wash on.

You need to be firmer with them, OP.

My children are 10,9, 7 and 5. They have a chart on the wall for jobs. Basically they all have a room when they get in except the little one who shares a room with another child rotated. Either bedroom, living room or dining room. The jobs include, tidying toys, putting rubbish in the bin, making beds.

It got to the point where the 4 of them would make so much mess I physically could not keep up with it. Now that they do a room a day I've found that they don't make a lot of mess and tidy as they go. I also found at the start child a would clean room a, then the next day mess it up because they knew they weren't doing that room that night as they already did it. When they did that I made them do that room again. This taught them to be respectful of all the rooms, not just the one they were tidying.

Now they get in, it takes them about 10 mins to go round cleaning the toys/ rubbish that they made and it's all done for the day. This gives me extra time to do the real cleaning, hoover, dust, etc.

I should also say that given their ages they do not do the kitchen/ bathroom and they do not use cleaning products. It's mearly a way to get them to tidy their things off the floor to allow me to clean the home quicker. Before it would take me all night just tidying toys/ rubbish and I wouldn't have time to clean.

Maybe you could have something on the wall for each day when they get home. Age related to them?

But I do expect them to do this stuff, so I don’t think that would work? How can taking responsibility for picking up their socks help in my anger about their failure to pick up their socks ? More importantly though, it doesn’t prepare them for life and they’ll be one of those annoying first year uni students who can’t do anything vaguely domestic and you wonder what on earth their parents were thinking!

I want to stop nagging but I don’t want to pick up their socks.

I like thd idea of a list of jobs linked to pocket money/screen time. We do monthly pocket money but I think the £5 a week instead, linked to jobs (and homework!) is a really good plan.

Just read this - see that logic too!

Absolutely not being unreasonable, to many DC have mothers as slaves these days, my own included, I imagine your husband hasn’t chosen to work long hours for the sheer pleasure of it, far too many opinions on here that would tell you your DH needs to do more, He probably already is by working so much.

Partner very involved when not working. He cooks and cleans and clears up and does most of the ferrying. He is aware of his absence and seeks to make up for it at weekends. No issue there.

If everyone else is working or studying full time and you have 1.5 days to do the chores it isn't setting the best example.

I'd go back to work full time, outsource the cleaning, shove all their stuff in boxes into their rooms daily and tell them that everyone works full time now so everyone has to pull their weight at home

I've spent years boring mine silly with extended lectures on how I am not their servant, we all work together in the house, how me and DH work to pay the mortgage, blah blah blah.

They do now do their expected jobs with rare moaning, I think it's just as it's quicker than listening to another lecture. Or I offer to swap jobs so I'll do the dishwasher if they clean all 3 toilets.

If they leave socks on the floor I make them come and collect them immediately, no tv or phone until they are picked up. I think you have to make it so annoying for them, every single time, that they eventually cave and do it quicker.

I don't think you can expect them to just pick up though, kids just don't see it. They need detailed instructions so I stand in the middle of the room and point things out to them and the we all do our bit and reconvene for the next bit. It's long winded but it works as they get quicker just to get it over and done with.

I sometimes give mine a list too, they can't do anything fun until they have completed it. It has to have big jobs broken down though, so not just tidy your room but put clean clothes away, all laundry in basket, rubbish in bin, empty bin, clear desk, make sure floor is clear, put robot vacuum in room AND switch it on.

I also make sure they know when I'm doing something nice for them so I expect to be thanked for cooking, giving them lifts, doing their laundry, and in turn I thank them for doing their jobs as well as for being kind and that sort of thing.

I do also occasionally have an exasperated rant when they annoy me as they are still teenagers and a pain in the bum sometimes.

It'll take some time but long term it's part of parenting. They need to learn this so they're not terrible housemates as adults.

Its frankly a bit crap but can be fun, DD used to do long suffering sighs and drag her feet when asked to do things but every time she did it I'd add to her jobs just to amuse myself, she finally cottoned on and stopped the passive aggressiveness.

I don’t want to work full time thanks! I have done, very recently in fact, and it made us all quite stressed. We choose to divide work like this and are very lucky that financially it’s possible.

the kids are doing only 2/3 more hours of school than I do of work. And some of that is break time. I think expecting me to be a dogsbody because I work only part time would send a pretty poor message about equality.

This sounds very familiar! I’m comforted by the improvement too.

I don’t know what hours your DH works, but when my DH was a SAHD I worked from 6am to 6pm every day with an hour commute (in good weather), so was out of the house from 5am to 7pm Monday through Friday. I was also on call and so at least every other week was working a Saturday or Sunday though at odd hours like 2am to 10am. So it was minimum of a 60hr week.

I still took on the chores of all our laundry and cleaning the kitchen. I would cook dinner on whichever weekend nights I was home, so 2x a week. I also tended to the houseplants and herb garden. Helped with homework on weekends- ie science projects, art projects. My DH did everything else, until the DC were old enough to have tasks of their own when he was able to share the load and go back to work PT as a result.

I don’t think very many people can work so much to justify doing nothing round the house. If I were a single mum, I’d have had to do everything AND work those hours and many single mums do this 24/7.

Yes they should be doing stuff. It’s really important that they learn to be independent and it’s your job to teach them. You need to take back control here. Nagging doesn’t work, they are just ignoring you.

Pick your battles and start easily achievable things. Set up a clear punishment and reward scheme. You know your kids, work out what will work. Most importantly, stick to it. Not complying comes with repercussions and you have to enforce these fairly and consistently.

YANBU. I was doing my own laundry from age 11/12. If I didn't do it, I didn't have clean clothes - natural consequences.

Toughen up. The fact you haven't installed all these things in primary is now coming back to bite you. Follow it up, firmly but quietly, follow on from your conversation the other day: "I spoke to you both about all this the other day, but nothing has changed". Just be firm. It's not hard. Just do it. No shouting, no moaning, tell them what they are going to do and what the consequences will be if they don't. You need to hold firm on this.

I mean come on. This is parenting basics.

I think this will work but worry they’ll just wear stinky clothes and that would probably upset me more than the socks.

I agree with you on this. You don’t want them learning that whoever is working PT is a live in maid that you can just expect to run around and pick up after you.

That may be true, but don’t tell me you never get irritated at having to continually repeat yourself?