AIBU to expect some level of household contribution from my 12/13 year olds?

[Guiltridden12345]

I’m being driven nuts. I work part time, at home, 3-4 days. The extra day I spend doing all the usual household shit, mental load stuff of meal planning, shopping, cooking, washing, organising etc. partner works massive hours for good pay which allows me to work part time. I accept the drudge responsibility as a quid pro quo but am starting to expect more from my family as they grow up.

I expect the kids to make their beds, empty their laundry into laundry basket, and clear up after themselves - ie don’t leave shoes/socks/bags/dirty plates etc around. I occasionally get them to wash up etc after a family meal, empty dishwasher, sweep up but it’s not daily or even weekly if I think about it. But they leave a trail of mess like Hansel and gretel breadcrumbs. I am like a broken record. Jam pots left with no lid in height of fly season. Shoes thrown off wherever. Socks removed and dropped wherever they fall. Dirty plates left on side etc. glasses/plates/wrappers left around/ wet towels on floor. Lights left blazing on when nowhere to be seen. And so on.

had a gentle word with both kids last night, saying pls clear up after yourselves, explaining that their hidden message is ‘mum will do it’ when they leave their shit around. Which is insulting to me. This morning - socks still over floor from last night that I’d ask to be cleared, lid left off jam with a fly in it and I finally lost my shit when my 13 year old left her breakfast things next to me as I loaded the dishwasher I had just emptied. She said ‘alright mum, it’s just a plate’ but it’s not just a fucking plate, it’s all the plates and my constant job of clearing up after two people who think they have a maid. They are busy with activities and socials (which I rank as v important for teens esp post covid) and I often find myself doing stuff like picking up socks while they are out so they don’t delay bedtime when they are back. Realise this isn’t helping but I don’t want one issue (mess) impacting another (the constant nag to pack bag, have a shower, get ready for bed at a decent time or leaving for school on time which is another constant bloody nag.

Don’t even get me started on having to micro manage homework, they don’t get a lot but if I didn’t chase them - and say no socials at weekends til it’s done- I’m pretty sure it would be overlooked.

I do phone bans as a sanction for bad behaviour. But I’m fed up with sanctions and nagging and negativity - I just want my children to stop being so bloody entitled and at least look after themselves/stop creating a personal mess?

i am fed up to the back teeth of nagging. I’m absolutely emotionally exhausted by it. I wonder if my expectations are unreasonable with their naturally selfish developing frontal lobes?

AIBU? If not, please tell me how to get them on board in a more positive, conciliatory way which doesn’t just get ignored after a day or create resentment?

@DorritLittle mine don't do their own laundry as we have a central collection point for it, ie everyone's blacks go into one tub, whites in another etc. So it is presorted and I hate double handling anything, so I am not rummaging through a laundry basket in each bedroom to find whites. I have a laundry rota. But from primary age my children strip their beds on a set day and their bedding goes in the washing machine. There were picture instructions that I made and printed off in the utility as to where washing powder goes and the machine setting. I cut the laundry scoop down to the correct dosage so they didn't have to measure. Then I just put it on the landing when dry and they put it back onto their beds. They worked as a team to do it so elder one helped the younger. Same with their bathroom towels, they fold them daily and put them on a heated towel rail. Each child has their own colour hand towel and bath sheet. If one is missing everyone knows whose it is.

Homework we had a time slot so no tech until then. If no homework (secondary) then broaden the knowledge of a topic they are covering in school. Youtube was their favourite educational resource. We tried to make learning enjoyable not a chore. We watch Youtube stuff together too as a family.

Bins are also their responsibility, one has the kitchen waste bin, the other recycling. On 2 set days a week bins get emptied into the wheelie bins. One of those days is the bin collection day so if it is their bin they take it to the end of the drive when leaving for school and would bring it in on their way home from school. I am responsible for bathroom bins. Routine is important rather than waiting for a bin to be full, it never gets too full. This all works for us.

I think being in the kitchen whilst dinner is prepared means they can help with small tasks that build up to them making family dinners. It is age dependent but a great place to chat and listen to music or podcasts together. However, I should point out that I am a long term sahm due to disability so I am not frazzled from working and trying to get a meal on the table.

Funnily enough I have tried post it’s and agree they work. Except I did one this week and got home to find her watching tv and no jobs done. Which really pissed me off as it’s just lazy. Hence it’s all come to a head.

so we are having a family mtg today. Partner leading it so demonstrates it’s a team decision and we’re on the same page (there were pleas to dad to intervene, which were swiftly closed down). We will lay all this out:

Expectations re personal responsibilities like homework and own plates/socks/clearing up after themselves and their friends.

regular jobs like animal care and we are going to delegate bins too (they did them earlier in week as partner away and he usually does, we agreed they can take this forward.

fanily meals - everyone chips in, someone lays table, gets drinks etc if parents cooking, everyone clears away together til it’s completely finished (this was a real gem of advice from a poster)

Phones/tech away after school until homework and jobs done - as a habit.

lifts/favours/socials/phones/allowance will be dependent on cooperation. Having to remind them or nag them will count as a fail as it’s the constant nagging we are trying to get rid of.

we have cherry picked the stuff we think will work for us and would like to thank everyone for their really helpful suggestions. It’s genuinely helped and shows the power of Mumsnet (even on AIBU!) when it’s collaborative and supportive rather than judgey and accusatory. So thank you all.

Haven't read full thread but:

Sit down with them and ask them what they think is reasonable they do

Write it as a list

Come up with your own list

Review it together constructively and compromise and agree

Ask them what should happen as a consequence should they not do the list you have agreed

If they need some gentle prompting OR if they do their jobs, use declarative language eg

"Your socks are on the floor" - reminding them what needs to happen with zero nagging

"I notice all the dirty plates are in the dishwasher" - acknowledging their efforts without praising them for stuff that frankly they should be doing without needing praise

I could have literally written this myself. We had tears last jog her from the kids as I got so cross. They’re 10/13. 13 is ASD. But no learning disabilities and generally an able child. 10 year old will do things when reminded but I suspect she has adhd as she starts projects and never finishes them and leaves stuff everywhere. They don’t have laundry baskets in rooms as they still dumped on the floor so we have one on the bathroom now. I had to ask them to get their stuff sorted last night so I could put a load on. Then this morning, clear your plates out of your bedroom/lounge which they did but left next to the dishwasher rather than put in!! I’m single parent though so no other help. I work part time but I still have lots to do on my days off with a voluntary position I hold. My 10 year old will do extra things like weeding the garden for extra money but I don’t associate other chores to pocket money. The pocket money was to help manage sweets and treats so I wasn’t constantly buying and they can take responsibility for their own spending in that respect. I’ve probably enabled a lot of this myself as when they’re at their dad’s I might blitz their rooms a bit.

I don’t think an inability to finish a task is necessarily a sign of adhd, it’s very normal for kids, teens and also adults, esp when tech is ever present and designed to reel us in and no one follows through to say ‘put that down and concentrate on task a’. I am card carrying neurotypical and I’m constantly distracted because I allow myself to be.

i feel your pain though and wish you luck with all these tips.

It’s not clear from your posts OP why your children won’t do what they are being told to. When and how did it become the case that your children get to ignore your instructions. Yes, not requests, but instructions.

Needing to negotiate with children with what rules they need to follow and when points to something being very wrong.

Sit down around the table and discuss why it’s good to have a clean , tidy and organised home. Write down all the things you do as well as working and how long it takes to do them all.
Then start to divide out the jobs into daily and weekly ones.
Children can decide which ones they want to do at the weekends and you write a list of daily jobs which they must do. Do not offer money for these jobs - who pays you to do them? Take away their phones and put a stop to all activities until they do what is expected of them.
I say this as if it’s easy but it isn’t and I still have to nag a little bit it’s much better than it used to be at my house. I’m not their servant and I was fed up doing it all. We take turns cooking dinner too.

What has worked for me is focusing on one small skill at a time. Picking up socks is one skill. Putting away your cereal box is another etc. They have to "learn" to see the mess, if you see what I mean.

Bigger skills too. Doing your laundry is a skill. Cleaning the kitchen table is a skill. Sorting the recycling is a skill. I try to rotate the skills so that their chores are not just being added to, but switched around so the focus is on learning something new.

When mine were around this age (13 & 14) we sat around the table and worked out four areas that needed to be done every week - laundry, kitchen (daily dishwasher etc), bathrooms and something else that escapes me but was probably keeping the main living areas clear. We worked on a rota, myself and exh included and committed to spending a bit of time on Sunday pm where all four of us would come together and make sure all was properly cleaned for the weekly handover. The kids were also responsible for planning and cooking one meal a week too. I had a box where I threw things that were left lying around and things were claimed on Sunday. I don't remember having to chase people after that.

Both went off to uni and were horrified at peers who didn't know how to cook, clean and use a washing machine so it seemed to work out ok

Doesn’t that last bit just imply that you accept cleaning up after them?

Another one to think about is them cooking.

my friend’s 16yo DS and I trade recipes. He cooks one night a week during the school holidays.

we are both similarly unenthusiastic cooks that like food. Roasting tin book is my saviour.

he is going to be a good ‘un to share with at Uni.

You should have been on this from the start, not waiting til they were teenagers!
It's about raising them to have lifeskills. Share workload, responsibility for doing and thinking.
I've no idea how to turn it around at this late stage but you're not unreasonable to expect it of them. You are unreasonable to expect it of them when you've raised them to be lazy selfish brats.
Start being a bit more of a disciplinarian and set expectations and stick to them I guess.