AIBU to expect some level of household contribution from my 12/13 year olds?

[Guiltridden12345]

I’m being driven nuts. I work part time, at home, 3-4 days. The extra day I spend doing all the usual household shit, mental load stuff of meal planning, shopping, cooking, washing, organising etc. partner works massive hours for good pay which allows me to work part time. I accept the drudge responsibility as a quid pro quo but am starting to expect more from my family as they grow up.

I expect the kids to make their beds, empty their laundry into laundry basket, and clear up after themselves - ie don’t leave shoes/socks/bags/dirty plates etc around. I occasionally get them to wash up etc after a family meal, empty dishwasher, sweep up but it’s not daily or even weekly if I think about it. But they leave a trail of mess like Hansel and gretel breadcrumbs. I am like a broken record. Jam pots left with no lid in height of fly season. Shoes thrown off wherever. Socks removed and dropped wherever they fall. Dirty plates left on side etc. glasses/plates/wrappers left around/ wet towels on floor. Lights left blazing on when nowhere to be seen. And so on.

had a gentle word with both kids last night, saying pls clear up after yourselves, explaining that their hidden message is ‘mum will do it’ when they leave their shit around. Which is insulting to me. This morning - socks still over floor from last night that I’d ask to be cleared, lid left off jam with a fly in it and I finally lost my shit when my 13 year old left her breakfast things next to me as I loaded the dishwasher I had just emptied. She said ‘alright mum, it’s just a plate’ but it’s not just a fucking plate, it’s all the plates and my constant job of clearing up after two people who think they have a maid. They are busy with activities and socials (which I rank as v important for teens esp post covid) and I often find myself doing stuff like picking up socks while they are out so they don’t delay bedtime when they are back. Realise this isn’t helping but I don’t want one issue (mess) impacting another (the constant nag to pack bag, have a shower, get ready for bed at a decent time or leaving for school on time which is another constant bloody nag.

Don’t even get me started on having to micro manage homework, they don’t get a lot but if I didn’t chase them - and say no socials at weekends til it’s done- I’m pretty sure it would be overlooked.

I do phone bans as a sanction for bad behaviour. But I’m fed up with sanctions and nagging and negativity - I just want my children to stop being so bloody entitled and at least look after themselves/stop creating a personal mess?

i am fed up to the back teeth of nagging. I’m absolutely emotionally exhausted by it. I wonder if my expectations are unreasonable with their naturally selfish developing frontal lobes?

AIBU? If not, please tell me how to get them on board in a more positive, conciliatory way which doesn’t just get ignored after a day or create resentment?

Ours have set tasks and general please clean up after yourself lines...I make them come and pick up every last sockk/plate/wrapper every time and instantly no matter what they are doing. It's painful for them and is slowly gaining traction. I also refuse point blank to tidy up after them and tell them I'm not "Dobby the House Elf". If they don't put stuff in the wash (including school clothes and PE kit) it won't be clean.
Homework... Well I create the conditions and ask but it's on them. They want to piss their teachers off/get detentions/crap qualifications thats on them. They know they won't be getting hand outs or financial help if they can't be fucked to take the opportunities they've been given (good school/nice area/parental support). Thus far this is working ok, they take responsibility and agree generally good kids. Autonomy and natural consequences mostly....

How about instead of taking away devices you make them earn the use to start with?

I’d be incredibly blunt…. I’m not your maid, I don’t exist to clean up after you. If you are not prepared to do the basics I won’t be driving you to your extra curricular/social events (or whatever is the appropriate consequence).

My seven and nine year olds don’t get away with what you are enabling. Their big thing is mine craft so dirty plates left on the counter, beds unmade etc. means no game time that day.

We had a family meeting and pointed out we all work/ study full time.
we all contributed to the mess so we all needed to contribute to the running of the house.
Chores were then discussed and a roster agreed to and posted on the kitchen door. Roster took into account part time work and sport commitments.
First few weeks everyone did their chores at the same time and they could see that we were a team.
Became routine after that.
They did their own washing and bathroom. Cooked 1 night a week and cleaned kitchen 2 nights a week. Fed animals etc. Seeing their Dad checking the roster each night for his chores also reinforced things.
good luck

@Guiltridden12345 as a child I was given a lot of responsibility at an early age. I swore I wouldn't burden my children with the same. But gradually I just added to the expectations of what they were responsible for. A toddler can put clothes into a laundry basket.

I would have a really good think about how you expect this to go from now on but the one piece of advice I will give is at least at the start don't do the ad-hoc stuff, just get them into a routine of doing things, just like they brush their teeth every day. As your two are now at secondary they can empty the dishwasher, stick a rota up on the fridge. If you get each one to do a Sunday and a Monday then they both cover a weekend load. In this house I empty the dishwasher one day a week, the children do alternate days. When Ds1 is at uni, Ds2 keeps his usual days and Dh and I cover Ds1's turns.

I don't agree with ever paying children to do chores, this gives them the impression of choice. No one pays an adult to tidy and clean. I also don't agree with allowing them the choice of having dirty clothes, some children will not give a shit about wearing stained, food encrusted clothes. I was not going to allow my children the chance to think this was acceptable. I also never yell, I calmly point out the things that aren't done. Then they do it. I think calm and stern works better than angry yelling.

We also had high standards for homework, it was done to a good standard or there would be consequences. I know people say well they have to live with the consequences but you really want your child to have a shitty life with no money and would watch them do that?

It makes it sound like our household wasn't ever fun. The whole everyone clear down the kitchen was done to music (linked dining room and kitchen speaker) or a podcast or everyone just chatting. If you gradually add in chores as they go then it doesn't suddenly become a mountain of tasks they didn't have to do before. So have a list of expectations on the fridge, everyone knows what it expected of them and all activities, phones etc are a privilege not a right. To put it in the most basic terms, if I get what I want, you get what you want. Same as a job, the company gets what they want from you in terms of tasks, you get what you want which is the money for your work. You might also want to list all the things you as parents do from meal planning, to food shopping, to rotating food in the fridge, just to show them where they are expected to be in later life.

I remember when I was a teenager- 4 decades ago,we all had specific chores to do. These were linked to allowing us to go out. Pilates would not be allowed upstairs OP. I also would not be prepared to put kids on jam jars etc. They must do their bit. I think the problem is,if u have always done it,they are probably thinking,why now do we have to start doing this stuff? I think all of u,including your husband need to sit down and talk about what can be done for smooth running and harmony at home. Perhaps before the 'meeting'yiu can all have a think about one thing u could do that would make a difference. My sister has put a white board in the kitchen where she writes a message if anything additional needs to be dine. She has waited on her family for years- it is helping. Good luck OP

Pulares= plates kids on jam jars= lids. 🙈

All these people saying “start them young”; I did! My two had set chores from the age of seven to fourteen - everything from emptying the dw, helping dust annd hoover, doing the recycling, walking the dog, making their beds - and they did them enthusiastically with hardly any prompting.

BUT the minute adolescence arrived; they didn’t lift a finger and it got to the point where I was driven mad by their laziness and it caused a really negative atmosphere in the house, and the fact that their dad had no interest in enforcing domestic rules made it worse! I felt I was battling him as well!

So I gave up! For eight weeks! And no one lifted a finger in that time. I did the basics like dw and rubbish and kept the fridge hygienic and that was it. No one had clean clothes except me. The crap built up on every horizontal surface. Clothes appeared on bedroom floors. Empty loo rolls and shampoo bottles appeared in the bathroom. The hall was jammed with bags and step ladders , tools and cardboard boxes. We had lots of takeaways.

I wish I could say that everything worked out well after that. It did in the sense that my dh took over the food shopping and cooking and my teens now take care of their rooms and their own laundry and they occasionally cook a meal too. I am the one who still cleans the bathrooms and the kitchen, I do all garden maintenance, and I do the tidying up and cleaning in the “shared rooms” , mostly look after the fog, and I carry the mental load I suppose of keeping the show on the road in that I organise holidays and days out and any diy that needs to be done. The house is not at the same level of organisation when I was in charge by myself but it’s just about ok.

Certainly everyone appreciates now how much time goes in to doing the maintenance cleaning jobs but my view is that unless you have a partner who cares as much about the housework as you do, especially clearing up after themselves, you are fighting a losing battle I’m afraid.

You’re not being unreasonable and they are perfectly capable of doing what you asked. I haven’t got involved in homework since my kids started secondary, I’ve always left them to manage it, and natural consequences if it’s not done (detentions where it gets done). Fortunately both kids have excelled and do their homework as they want to do well rather than as I’ve nagged. Give them some self responsibility around homework as the school will deal with it if they don’t do it.

My sons were the same. A decade on they still sort of are - they just don’t see it until they are ready to see it. I spent a lot of time getting in turns angry /taken for granted / sad/ frustrated. It started to become the whole tone of our relationship. Eventually I backed off, got a cleaner and sort of lived with it. I do sometimes reflect and wonder if actually the part of parenting that is sort of trying to ‘train’ kids has any value at all and ever makes any difference. They are either messy or tidy? You can smooth the edges but that’s it? Maybe I should have approached differently but they are now both lovely, successful, popular and we are very close. They are really messy though and I could not live with them now! (shudder)

I agree with the natural consequences points.

I'd also suggest doing a list (once) of all the things you expect them to do. Laminate it if you can, or put it on a whiteboard or let them make a copy on their phones.

i.e.

Check house for my possessions
Check house for my washing up
Put washing in washing basket
Put away clean washing
Check homework diary for new homework
Do new homework

Do it at a really granular level. They then have a thing they can check every day. I would either then put it in a really prominent place, and to start with ask them to check the list once a day (for example after school, once they have had a snack) at a time when there's time to work through the list.

I have vivid memories of being left in the house as a teenager and my mum coming back and asking "why haven't you hung the washing out/hoovered/done this other thing" - they were all things she saw needed doing but at that age I just really didn't notice it. Whereas as an adult I have a mental list of all the things I need to check if they need doing and can just run through it. So I wonder if a physical list might be the stepping stone while they haven't got to the point that they have the mental list?

Combine that with no lifts etc etc and you'll get somewhere. I do suggest you make the consequences clear beforehand though - if your daughter thought she was okay to do homework Sunday (because she would have been before) and is now missing a day out, then that will be mighty frustrating for her. But if she's had advance warning that she needed to do it before the weekend because she's going to be too busy to do it then then that's her lookout.

My son is exactly the same it drives me nuts.

Best thing I saw was a daily WiFi code that is given on completion of chores

But you also need to allow a certain amount of mess to accumulate (for them to clear up) before doing it yourself

And use the single word reminder of 'homework', 'plate', 'bag' rather then the full nag

We don't pay for chores exactly but they got a pretty generous monthly allowance once they hit 12 on the basis that they contributed to the household properly. They didn't so we halved it and they can earn it back if they are consistent and don't have to be nagged.

Tidying their own rooms/managing their own laundry in terms of dirty goes in the basket, clean is collected form the pile and put away, making their own breakfast and lunch on school days and pet care (her own small furry) is just basic and has natural consequences as others say - dd1 adores her pet and it's actually been a real pleasure to see her take care of it so well.

Chores which benefit the household have been trickier but what worked better has been to let them pick their own. Dd1 will cook dinner and help meal plan/food shop with her dad. Dd2 will close the kitchen door, put on some music and do all the washing up and cleaning the kitchen.

It's still a battle though - dh loses his shit over how messy they leave the living room pretty much every day.

You forgot to say "Bloke here".

I can't imagine there's any other reason than that as to why you form your evidence-free opinion of the OP's husband in the way that you have, irrespective of whether she's later said he does his share

Just stop, why are you micro managing their homework? let them learn the consequences of not having mummy do everything.

Yes she had advance warning - I made it very clear when she asked that the sleepover was contingent on homework being done. And reminded. Even that feels like spoon feeding!

That sounds exhausting OP! All I can say is that when I was a young teenager my pocket money was linked to a few jobs I had to do each week. I had to make my bed every day, do the dishes (with my sibling) once a week and on Saturdays make sure my bedroom was in a suitable/tidy state. The completion of these tasks 'released the funds'. It was very light hearted but it kept me on track.

One extra thing to add is that if you allow them to live at home without any home responsibilities (as some have suggested) you can be pretty sure they'll take that behaviour into their future relationships.

I was with a man for several years who seemed incapable of picking up after himself. The reason? He'd never done it at home because his mum always did everything. The way I see it, you're training your kids now to be good and considerate partners when they grow up.

No one leaves a meal until everything is washed up, put away, surfaces wiped.
Everyone cooks together. No one ever gets to watch someone else do the work.
Everyone needs to be competent enough to do everything. And I mean everything. Farm stuff, garden stuff, house stuff. Pay bills, budget, meal plan (and that's hard), food shop.
If I'm putting time into them it's time I don't have to do other stuff. So they need to be putting time back into the household.

Yes I see this. I think I always could but it felt too much like hard work. A 3/4/5 year old putting their dish on the side is one thing but teens that are bigger than you is quite another. The scales have fallen!

OP why do you feel guilty about following through a consequence that you clearly spelled out more than once? I know it’s not pleasant to see someone crying, but why is your DD’s self inflicted upset more important than your own feelings of upset because she expects you be her skivvy? Just accept that someone is going to be angry/frustrated in this scenario, so it might as well be the person who will genuinely benefit from this lesson in the future. It’s not even like you’ve said she can’t have the sleepover, only that she can’t go out in the day, so you’re still being a bit soft on her really!

You know what they say - insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Stay firm with your consequences because whilst it might give you temporary relief to give your DD one last chance you’re not actually doing what’s best for her.

You are completely right, thank you for setting that out so clearly. I think I went soft during covid, I saw them lose so much and I genuinely love that they have such freedom and happiness back. But there’s a limit and we’ve reached it. I appreciate we have a responsibility to turn her into a competent adult and that requires work and hard lessons.

she got up at 8 and instead of watching tv she did her maths. She is in good spirits and is working to an earlier release by getting on with the rest. So far so good. This will be the new normal.

I found (during lock down actually) that post-it notes were my friend for any additional jobs/reminder jobs.
Mine have regular jobs (dishwasher/packed lunches/chickens). And occasionally I have to remind them to "human" retrieve an abandoned lunch box/school bag.

Sometimes though, there is just a pile of jobs that we all need to pitch in with. Putting shoes away, emptying the airer, taking a pile of stuff upstairs, emptying the bins...that kind of stuff. I found if I just wrote a list of them all at once, on a post it note and then called them down to it, it worked better. I tended to do this whilst I was cooking tea. It meant:
They got to agree who did which chore (and fastest down could sometimes bagsie the "best" chores). I don't care, as long as they are done.
Because I was busy cooking children could see I was not just sitting around)...felt more of a shared burden.
The Post-It jobs were a "do them all now" thing. Not a do them at some point today/later...because they would forget. But all in one go meant children did not feel they were doing jobs "all the time".
It made it less personal weirdly...it was the post-it note with the list of chores...not me. I only had to write it down once....and then direct the DC to the post it note.

This is really sensible advice.

There is no way my kids are doing their own washing yet. I am grateful that they put their dirty washing in a basket and clean washing away and that happened gradually. I plan to add dishwasher emptying soon. Homework and tidying room/sorting their stuff for the next day is one of their main requirements.