AIBU to expect some level of household contribution from my 12/13 year olds?

[Guiltridden12345]

I’m being driven nuts. I work part time, at home, 3-4 days. The extra day I spend doing all the usual household shit, mental load stuff of meal planning, shopping, cooking, washing, organising etc. partner works massive hours for good pay which allows me to work part time. I accept the drudge responsibility as a quid pro quo but am starting to expect more from my family as they grow up.

I expect the kids to make their beds, empty their laundry into laundry basket, and clear up after themselves - ie don’t leave shoes/socks/bags/dirty plates etc around. I occasionally get them to wash up etc after a family meal, empty dishwasher, sweep up but it’s not daily or even weekly if I think about it. But they leave a trail of mess like Hansel and gretel breadcrumbs. I am like a broken record. Jam pots left with no lid in height of fly season. Shoes thrown off wherever. Socks removed and dropped wherever they fall. Dirty plates left on side etc. glasses/plates/wrappers left around/ wet towels on floor. Lights left blazing on when nowhere to be seen. And so on.

had a gentle word with both kids last night, saying pls clear up after yourselves, explaining that their hidden message is ‘mum will do it’ when they leave their shit around. Which is insulting to me. This morning - socks still over floor from last night that I’d ask to be cleared, lid left off jam with a fly in it and I finally lost my shit when my 13 year old left her breakfast things next to me as I loaded the dishwasher I had just emptied. She said ‘alright mum, it’s just a plate’ but it’s not just a fucking plate, it’s all the plates and my constant job of clearing up after two people who think they have a maid. They are busy with activities and socials (which I rank as v important for teens esp post covid) and I often find myself doing stuff like picking up socks while they are out so they don’t delay bedtime when they are back. Realise this isn’t helping but I don’t want one issue (mess) impacting another (the constant nag to pack bag, have a shower, get ready for bed at a decent time or leaving for school on time which is another constant bloody nag.

Don’t even get me started on having to micro manage homework, they don’t get a lot but if I didn’t chase them - and say no socials at weekends til it’s done- I’m pretty sure it would be overlooked.

I do phone bans as a sanction for bad behaviour. But I’m fed up with sanctions and nagging and negativity - I just want my children to stop being so bloody entitled and at least look after themselves/stop creating a personal mess?

i am fed up to the back teeth of nagging. I’m absolutely emotionally exhausted by it. I wonder if my expectations are unreasonable with their naturally selfish developing frontal lobes?

AIBU? If not, please tell me how to get them on board in a more positive, conciliatory way which doesn’t just get ignored after a day or create resentment?

YANBU. They are being quite typical kids and my 15 yo was the same.

They need consequences. Dirty socks left on the living room floor? Come and pick them up right now. No, I don’t care if you are in the middle of something. Phone bans until stuff is done.

However, it takes a LONG time for them to “get it”. You have 2-3 more years of nagging minimum. Teenagers seem to be naturally selfish and don’t see parents as actual humans with feelings or a life.

No lifts til the house is as you want it. Copy what they say to you if they start moaning. Ie it’s only one plate DD!

or large cardboard box, all the left stuff put iin it. Don’t cook unless you have enough clean plates in the cupboard not the dishwasher, to put the meals on.

let them have stinky clothes, they can explain to their mates why they are stinky

please don’t let these kids go to university to share a flat with my kids, who know how to look after themselves and their home and family

That may be true, but don’t tell me you never get irritated at having to continually repeat yourself?

Some things you need to let go. I'd step over socks or kick them aside. They'll realize soon enough they don't have clean socks.

This is exactly what I intend to prevent.

I’m afraid that’s just not an acceptable solution for us.

@Guiltridden12345 I like to make it it as inconvenient for them as it is for me when they don't do things just for my own amusement.

So if it's socks not picked up (DS) I'll make him stop playing on his laptop to come get them. If he randomly drops them somewhere rather than in the laundry I'll stop him again to put them away properly.

If they don't put their laundry away in a reasonable time period I threaten them with having do the laundry (which I don't actually want them to do at the moment) but with a description of unfolding sweaty socks, handling of dirty pants, gross PE kits.

With DD it's her room so I just go in there when she's watching tv and point at things until she picks them up while shrieking "floor!" in different irritating voices.

This has made me realise I parent via boring lectures and being irritating, I might not be the best example!

Train your kids - one task at a time.

Firstly - shoes neatly lined up where you want them. Do it consistently for 2 weeks then add a new task. Keep going till it becomes automatic for them.

Mine have to make their beds, pick up dirty washing, put plates and cups away. They’ve had to do it fir years, but the still forget, especially DD. If they do, I wait until they’ve just sat down to watch tv or play in the computer and remind them then.

m they then usually remember again fir a few days.

Little tip: start small and build on it.
I'd give my son 2 socks to pair up while he's sat on his xbox. Then a few weeks later 2 pairs of socks etc. Now I can give him all his socks out of the wash and he'll pair them all up without thinking.

This - their tasks need writing down and sticking to the wall / fridge / bedroom door so they can't forget.

"irritated at having to continually repeat yourself?"

Yeah. All the friggin time. Parenting is so painful sometimes. But you just rinse and repeat. Hold firm. Then it gets easier. Then it gets harder and you have to ask them : why am I having to tell you this yet again?

We have this atm. Ds2 - 14 - if he doesn't take his pile of ironing up and Dh gets irritated at having to ask him yet again!

Of course they should, and should have done since they were much younger. Would it help to have specific tasks rather than general ‘contribution’? Agree together then there should be consequences if they don’t to the tasks, like reduced pocket money

If you have boy(s), this is even more important given how rubbish a lot of adult men seem to be at doing their share.

Also, just to add, your partner should be equally involved in getting the kids to pitch in. It’s not just mums who raise kids to be tidy adults.

And he does, when he is here.

mine are about that sort of age and have got better as a natural consequences, a tiny bit of shouting (that I try not to do) and general education on housework - kids don’t naturally know how to tidy or declutter so they need to be taught.

They have to see the benefits of doing it and if my house isn’t tidy then they can’t have friends over. If their clothes aren’t in a washing basket they don’t get washed. If dd2 leaves her discarded clothes / towels in the bathroom I put them in a corner of her bedroom out of my sight. I don’t nag them to do homework - teachers do. My dc have autism and adhd and if they forget things or get overwhelmed my job is to support them to get over these problems, it’s not easy and sometimes I will let things slide. Tomorrow dd1 has a friend over so we meal planned and wrote the shopping list together. Tonight dd1 will tidy her bedroom and if the dishwasher is already turned on she’ll wash the mugs in her room up by hand or she won’t get another play date.

I would just let them wear stinky clothes, ignore the mess in the bedroom, move any objects left lying around the house back to their bedroom in a pile. If they’re making too much mess having endless snacks stop buying the snacks. Dd2 won’t wash up yogurt pots after she’s eaten them so I have temporarily stopped buying them. I haven’t nagged her about this, next week I’ll buy more and have one conversation about her washing the pots up. If she doesn’t I’ll stop buying them for another fortnight. The cycle will quietly repeat until she does it.

also find jobs they do like and congratulate them. Dd1 sometimes goes food shopping for dinner on her way home from school. She’s been able to cook a basic meal from about the age of 11. She is in a gardening club at school so has been repotting and watering plants for me too.

Stinky clothes is their problem, not yours. Time to toughen up and let them start solving their own problems. If nothing else, peer pressure will rapidly sort them out.

I once had a lodger who had finally left home at the age of 29. I had to explain to him how to separate lights and darks, and how to work a washing machine. Don't let your children grow up like him.

Gosh that sounds like it’s worked? I do wonder whether their stacked calendar and lift requirements, on top of a demanding (albeit part time) role means I am constantly low level impatient. I’m aware that stacked diary might be limiting the amount of patient conversations we can have. It’s trying to fit this stuff in around too much. Food fir thought.

I like the idea of no tidy/no jobs = no lifts/social. I did it once and felt terrible guilt, but I did it in anger. If it’s a set consequence, and it’s delivered calmly, i honestly think it has more chance of getting through. I have become white noise.

The 2 things that stood out to me was the "gentle word" and the fact that they know "mum will do it".

My kids when at the same age done all of this themselves and their homework, because they were taught they need to. And firm enough for them to believe me. They do the dishwasher regular as well, they will hoover round without being asked, just because they know that not much is asked of them anyway so they help when needed. In the grand scheme of things it's probably less than an hour a week (excl homework) they spend each doing these things but keeping on top of it. It's really not a lot to ask.

I feel you, OP. We have DSD for the whole summer holidays and I'm dreading it as she just leaves tides of crap in her wake, rubbish falls where it falls, dishes left wherever, shoes carefully positioned at the bottom of the stairs as a trip hazard, she will finish the loo roll and not get more from the cupboard etc etc.
She's 11 and at a stage of absolutely having to have certain tops or leggings to wear on particular days so she's always checking up with me on whether her laundry is done. She's not getting the message that I will not be Searching her room/bag for washing and if it's not in the basket then it's not getting washed.
Her 3 year old brother proudly chucks his clothes in the basket so I'm pretty sure it's not a wildly age inappropriate expectation.
I've told DH he will have to get serious with her as I'm returning to work after mat leave soon and I don't have the bandwidth to be picking up after people who are old enough to do it themselves.
She's a good kid, not a bad bone in her body, it's just a blind spot she's got that nothing is her responsibility. Doesn't make it less frustrating!

observations really

-my eldest was chronically messy. Still is. In his late twenties. He is like pigpen and leaves a trail of detritus wherever he goes. No amount of threats, punishments, rewards, please made an iota of difference. He is now but only since he had to live on his own or live with people that were also dirty. Whereas my youngest was never like that, naturally tidy . Didn’t treat them any differently to encourage younger one to be tidy. Same sex, not that big a difference in ages . Sometimes it is about how people are- some are just the types of people who need order and see mess naturally. The rest can put up with mess till it becomes a burning platform so to speak. My eldest’s burning platform was living on his own and finding his mess accumulated to a level even he couldn’t stand

-I got a cleaner for this reason. Housework is soul destroying imho. Chaos theory and entropy and all that. No sooner than you’re done and have a clean house than it starts to deteriorate. It comes from skin cells shedding, normally bodily functions, the acts of cooking annd eating, windows open with nsects coming in people walking n form outdoors, maybe pets, etc etc . , There is nothing you can do to control that, zilch. Other than live on your own with just one body making your own mess 🤣. If you are, like most women today, working and used to doing something that is a bit constructive in your day job, it is just so bloody hard to have one day per week when your life is reduced to the completely unconstructive task of cleaning. when you’re cleaning you know it will be unclean again by the next week and so on to infinity. No wonder it would drive anyone to exasperation. Seeing all your hard work being messed up by kids is not for the faint hearted or those that like some degree of control in their lives. You will have constant arguments and rising resentment of your kids , and even dh, all the time you are doing this. If you can afford it get a cleaner-it’s a bloody sight easier ignoring the mess building when you know it’s not you that has to clean it up. It stops a lot of arguments

how much do you earn per hour? If it is more than you pay the cleaner then stop taking time out of your paid employment and pay a cleaner instead- outsource to someone who will get a benefit form these tasks and ensure you pay them fairly. Not only will you be better off in terms of income, it will also make a differnec3 to your future pension, and will help you maintain your progression as part timers are also most always held back on progression. There is literally no point you giving up hours work to do domestic manual labour if you earn more than you could pay for that service. If you are working part time it should be to do the job you need that no money could buy to the standard you’d do yourself - looking after your kids. If they’re school age they don’t need thst during day, so ask to switch to term time working hours to support kids only.

Thank you for this, it made me feel completely understood. M

ironically it’s not the day a week of drudge that kills me, it’s the death by a thousand cuts in between. But I hear you and will think about that too.

I am somewhat comforted that other people have this issue too. I am having major problems with my 7yo trashing the place and not clearing up after herself at the moment but also doing things to push boundaries a bit I think. I’ve had lots of conversations about why it’s not fair, how can we make it easier for her to remember etc. She’s much worse than my 4yo and I’m slightly terrified she’ll still be like this as a teenager (or worse).

As an example, she leaves wet towels on the floor, dirty pants etc whereas the little one puts things in the washing basket. She is super creative but I have never seen a child as messy in their play. I wouldn’t mind if she then tidied up afterwards but she can trash a room in about 3 minutes.

The other evening she was supposed to be tidying her room and instead decided to get glitter out and then dropped it, smashing the large pot and just left it with no care in the world. I have never seen so much sparkly shit in my entire life. It is literally everywhere and I’ve already vacuumed. I am trying to take tips from this thread as it’s driving me bonkers and I hate nagging all the time.

You could just go for Operation Shock and Awe.

Tell the kids they will have no phones, pocket money or taxi service for one week starting today. They have seven days to start pulling their weight in all the ways already requested many times . So, you're not going to list them again. They are on their own. There will be no negotiations, no giving in.
Either, they EARN their privileges, or there will be none.