To think the parents of children who are in childcare would like to see them more often?

[tori32]

I CM and have several sets of parents who finish work early on many occasions who never collect their child early. I know I am paid and it does not bother me in the slightest to look after them for their agreed hours, I just feel sorry for the child because they are missing out on this extra time with parents who work full time.

I was a working mum for 3 months (as in not CM) but always collected dd early when I finished early because I wanted to spend time with her. AIBU?

Yeah... but do we take the kids or leave them

I think we should invite ruddynorah too - sounds like she needs a drink!!

contoversial! and yes, RN could use a drink!

Where will your children be while you drink in the pub? You are not thinking.......(whisper Kids Club?

what on earth does YABU mean??????

You Are Being Unreasonable

Thanks WallOfSilence. Appreciate you taking the time to write that post to me. It did sting a bit because it is so much what you fear that others are thinking about you anyway when you are a SAHM. The blank, disinterested look on peoples faces when you tell them what you do and the hasty retreat to find someone more interesting actually does happen you know? You do feel sometimes that you have to defend your position. I am not envious of WOHM, I much prefer being a SAHM but without wanting to spark a huge debate I do sometimes think that they probably dont really encounter that sort of opinion because on the surface at least they seem to be achieving a lot more. I think we all search for justification that our way is the right way because then we dont have to feel so guilty about the negatives that our choices bring both for us and our kids.

FWIW my Mum worked full time through out my childhood and I ended up picking up a lot of the fallout from that. She was ALWAYS stressed out. From the age of 7 onwards I did pretty much all the Housework and looking after my younger sister full time during the school holidays. Thats probably why I feel so lucky to be able to be with my kids the way I am.

Thanks Chelsygirl .

you know the more I think about this thread the more angry it makes me. Not only should your children be there for everythign (shopping, decorating, moving house) but you should enjoy it too. Get in the real world.

obviously children are an inconvenience for some people (and i don't mean you full time workers before you attack me - i mean rich people who neither work nor take care of their children - i know plenty)

Surely the best way to relax after a hard day at work is with a large gin and tonic?

Then a nice cuddle and chat with the kiddiwinks while DH pours you another one and brings you a bowl of nuts?

That's how it is in our house, anyway.

I can totally relate to how you feel, viggoswife. But would also like to add that the negative "vibes" I get are not from WOHMs (I don't know very many, am pretty much the first out of my friends to have kids, and obviously the other mums I do get to know are those with time to go to playgroups etc), but from those friends without kids who can't imagine what it's like to have them. To quote one bloke friend from uni when I said that I wanted to have kids and thought I would be a SAHM - "But I don't think that would be enough for you".

viggoswife, you're welcome1

tori32 YABU. I have been a childminder for 21 years. It is parent's own business what they do with their 'spare' hours that they have paid for.

I often say to parents, take some time out for yourself, especially if they finish their teaching day early. I say, go and get your hair done, go to Sainsbury, do whatever you like.

None of my minded children get tearful towards the end of the day, they might get tearful because they have to go home!

Yes, children can 'tell the time' by the routine, and some of them hate to be collected early, especially if they realise it is before tea, when they know everyone else is staying. they think they are missing out!

alibubbles you sound lovely. If my kids were little and I lived near you, you'd be my CM

I 2nd that alfiesbabe!

Hi Ladies
It still seems to me that the more time parents spend away from their children the more time they want to be away from them.

My arguments are that the ideal situation is for a very young child to be cared for by it's parents. I realise this is impossible for many parents so they get the next best care possible. Why can no-one admit this? Can anybody say that a childminder or nursery does a better job than they could. Someone else is teaching your child about life, about their morals and ideas, how to talk, seeing first steps. How can it be as good for someone else to get all the benefits and joys of raising your beautiful child. If I said that the ideal would be for a child to be raised by both biological parents would that be offensive too? Because I believe it, although once again this is impossible for many families for many different reasons and I wasn't raised in this way.

Notsosure - I thought your posts were excellent.

Lilacclaire- Your ds has a tatrum when he is with you to go to his childminder How does that make you feel? It would hurt me!

Alfiesbabe - there is a definate connection between love and time. Time is harder to give than anything else and something which cannot be measured. Maybe the difference between 6 and 10 hours daily with your child is minimal but the difference between 10 and 2hours is massive.

Some of my previous posts were probably a bit harsh and it's only my opinion. I appear to be very much in the minority with the view that a baby/young child is better off with parents than anywhere else. Perhaps I am very out of date and I am a working mother myself.

Nicetry... you say 'I appear to be very much in the minority with the view that a baby/young child is better off with parents than anywhere else. Perhaps I am very out of date and I am a working mother myself.'

i actually think you are right, and i doubt many parents would disagree

BUT what this view does not take into account is that many , many parents have to go back to work weeks/ months after the birth of a baby to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table

and therein lies the rub.

we all have to make sacrifices and compromises as it is, but we don;t need the additional guilt from other mothers or caregivers.

as a SAHM who used to be a WOHM, i can see both sides of the equation i think.

but at the end of the day, nothing is ever as simple as 'babies and samll children should be with their parents' becasue it does not take into account the reality for many parents

A couple of posters have related stories of their own mothers' experience to explain their own choice. We've heard about mothers who stayed at home but were resentful and regretful but we've also been told about mothers who went to work but were stressed and unhappy. In each case, the example has been given to explain the poster's own choice to do what her own mother didn't/couldn't do.

Does this not simply underline the point that each mother, with her family, must decide - where she has the freedom to choose - what is right for her and her family without anyone, least of all another mother, trying to make her feel guilty for the choice she makes. That goes just as much for the choice of how to spend "free" time as it does to the choice about whether to go out to work or not in the first place (and about how many hours and where to work, of course).

NiceTry, I would actually say that, in some respects, my dd gets better care and attention from the nursery than I can give her.

She is basically an only child (grown up half-siblings not counting for this purpose) and I am on the shy side with a relatively small social circle, few of whom have children and they are mostly boys. My dd gets to play with a wider range of children, including other girls, for longer periods of time with more structure and stimulation than I think I could manage and certainly more than I could sustain.

BUT, the nursery is not raising her. I and my dh are doing that with their competent assistance.

yes NiceTry, your posts are offensive. Because there is absolutely no definitive evidence that suggest any particular parenting method is 'best'. None. There is evidence that children need trusting and caring relationships. There is evidence that children who don't have these may suffer. There is no evidence that suggests that any methodology is the 'right' one.

'there is a definate connection between love and time.' - err, would you like to explain what that means? It makes no sense. I love my dad, but hardly ever see him cos he lives hours away. Perhaps you think I'd love him 'more' or 'better' if he lived across the road? I find that offensive.

Read my earlier post about how children are independent beings and people make different choices somewhere along the spectrum. Some parents go back to full time work very soon after having a child.Some people choose to stay at home with their kids and home educate because they believe they need that level of control over their child's life. And everything in between.
Your view that a 'very young child' (quite how you define that I dont know) needs to be with a biological parent 24/7 is your view. That's all. It carries no weight outside of what you decide to do in your family.
Lulu - thank you for the voice of reason.

nicetry, I have 20 years experience working in childcare and I completely agree with you.

parents often choose to think their children are so happy in full time childcare, it must be to make leaving them so much worth it

I've had parents of babies left 10 hours a day saying how much they love nursery. How do they know, have they spent the previous 10 hours in the nursery with the child? Is it because the child doesn't come out kicking and screaming? No its because it suits the parent.

There are so many posters on here making fun of you and vittoswife as if your ideas must be so wrong as they don't match theirs.

Mn is probably made up of more working out of the home mums rather than mums who have chosen to be at home and the expains the vitriol thrown at you.

MsHighwater - thanks too. I forgot to add in my post - I find it particularly offensive when people refer to nurseries or CMs 'raising' children. DH and I raise our children. They have lots of interactions with other adults - at nursery when little, at school now, and with other friends of the family, extended family etc. I think that enriches their lives. But it is DH and I who raise them.

NiceTry, you said: "Can anybody say that a childminder or nursery does a better job than they could." For me, the answer to that is yes - when my children were small I think the nursery did a better job of looking after them that I would have done.

You also said you would feel hurt if your child wanted to be with a CM. I was happy that my ds1 asked for his nursery keyworker at the weekends because it meant that he was happy when he was with her and that was more important than any feelings of jealousy his comments might inspire (which is what I think you mean).

chelsy, how sad that you've worked for 20 years in childcare when you clearly don't believe in it and when the children you work with are clearly so unhappy.
And have you stopped to read Lulu's post. If by 'suiting the parents' you mean 'enabling them to keep a roof over their head and food on the table' then I think you need to wake up and join the real world.

chelsygirl, NiceTry is not having "vitriol" thrown at her for choosing to stay at home but for effectively accusing others of making the wrong choice just because it is not the same as hers. You are pretty much doing the same. Most of those who have disagree with tori and NiceTry have been very clearly in favour of allowing others to make a person and individual choice for their own family without being subjected to unwarranted criticism - especially from those whose livelihood depends on that choice.

My dd is 2.7 and highly verbal. Am I allowed to believe her when she tells me that she enjoys nursery?