To think the parents of children who are in childcare would like to see them more often?

[tori32]

I CM and have several sets of parents who finish work early on many occasions who never collect their child early. I know I am paid and it does not bother me in the slightest to look after them for their agreed hours, I just feel sorry for the child because they are missing out on this extra time with parents who work full time.

I was a working mum for 3 months (as in not CM) but always collected dd early when I finished early because I wanted to spend time with her. AIBU?

well - I work full time and always have since dd was 1 year old (she is now 5).

I didn't choose it, but we need to pay mortgage, bills etc etc.

I miss her all the time, and I understand tori's point.

DD was in nursery before CM, and even though the nursery is open between 7 AM and 6PM they encouraged parents not to leave the children the whole day as they said is negative for children so young to be away from parents for so long.

DD seemed to have a great time in nursery, but only lately she's confessed that she really hated there especially when I was picking her up late.

I don't have the luxury to finish early often, however if I do I always pick her up early from childminder.

I shop online and leave dd with dh if going to the hairdresser.

When picking her up early I am always greeted by a huge smile from dd and she has told me that she feels special those times as she really feels I want to spend time with her.

On those days she will have beans on toast or carrot, homous and pitta bread for tea, but she's happy and she will help preparing it with me.

I know she has a cooked lunch at school so it's OK.

I knew a lady in my past job who had a nanny, she used to travel the whole week for work (high flyer....) and then go away for the week end as she needed me or us time with her dh - child was left with nanny for whole weeks on end.

She used to tell me this trying to get understanding and agreement from me, but sorry NO! I couldn't understand why you have a child and then think you can still have the job you love/spend the week end away/ mainly behaving like you had never had a child and then also expect understanding from other mums.

I miss my child, I want to be with her if I can..... it's really that straightforward....

mrshighwater- what you describe to me is occasional 'me' time, it isn't every other day IYSWIM. No, its not my business, but like anyone else, I do have a right to an opinion if I don't understand where someone is coming from and to question things.

unknownrebelbang yes because they pay on standing order, however, when they finish I calculate the exact hours from my record book and times by the hourly rate. I add the SO's and then the difference is paid whichever way it falls whether I owe or they owe IYSWIM.

It's not occasional, though, tori32, it's every other week and every Thursday. I could do it otherwise and I choose not to. Whether you mean it or not, it is me you are talking about as much as the parents of your mindees.

I think someone further back already pointed out something similar to this but not understanding something and implying that it is wrong are not the same thing.

notsosure - completely agree with you

Thanks notsosure I am glad someone gets my point.

notsosure - there is a world of difference between your high flying friend and the "normal" parents who have taken exception on this thread to being judged for what they do.

I don't miss my dd enormously when I'm away from her because I'm never away from her for very long. If I was, then I would. If I worked full time, I doubt I'd leave her for the weekend often but I probably would do it occasionally.

I know this lady is quite an extreme case and I don't wish to judge people on this thread as we are all entitled to what we think is best for our children.

HOWEVER I understand tori's point because I talk to dd and know that she would feel she was last on my list if I left her with CM while I am not working.

So - please- don't take this personally....everybody is entitled to own opinion and behave as they think is best.

notsosure, that is pretty much what most people have been saying all through this thread - and yet still a number of posters have been making negative judgements of some parents for the choices they have made.

Crap! Another thread I've spent so long reading when I meant to go to bed over an hour ago .

This is the first SAHM/WOTH debate I've read since joining MN (I know, I haven't been here long!). But I just don't understand it AT ALL. Surely it's a bit like religion? Either you believe that it's the best thing for your kid to have their parents around as much as possible, and find your fulfilment in being a mum, or you believe that it's the best thing to be able to provide as best you can in life for your child and that they are better off having a mum/dad who is fulfilled at work which then makes them a better parent at home... and never the twain shall meet?!

Why can't we just let everyone get on with what they're doing? I doubt anyone will ever be 'converted' to the opposite opinion, and certainly not on a faceless, relationship-less environment like MN. Great for advice, crap for debates like this (except as entertainment of the 'fight, fight!' kind - I feel about 6! ).

Boo, am Fred Killer for this evening then! That'll teach me to go to bed early

Right, I have jumped from first page to last page and apologise for repeating anything that has already been said.

I do leave my ds in the childminders even if I finish early, its the only time I can get a coffee in peace or get some shopping done quickly without hysterics, ds running off, tantrums etc.

I do not feel guilty in the slightest. DS adores is childminder, if we walk by her house and don't go in he has another tantrum.

I have even been known to take a day off work to do something specific, which I could not do with ds in tow. And I don't mean going out enjoying myself, more recently was christmas shopping, decorating etc.

If it wasnt the cm he was left with then it would have been his gran. So shoot me!

notsosure, it sounds like you are not so sure about working ft. If I am right, then it is a sad situation. Your feelings are perfectly valid. That is not to say that there aren't working mums out there (seems like the majority on this thread), who have no such guilt and feel their dcs are happy and contented with their cms/nurseries/nannies, a huge testament to the loving care providing by such carers.

For other people, perhaps Tori and chankins, they switch to becoming cms so that they can fulfill their wish to be with their dcs during the day. The downside is of course they still have to make ends meet and take money from people who don't hold the same beliefs or have the same circumstances as them. Hence the gap in understanding.

ibblebob, FWIW, I do learn a lot from seemingly pointless debates. People are happy to be blunter on mn than RL. It is a great eye-opener to see how people live and perceive things. I have been converted on some views and reinforced in others.

TBH I don't consider this thread as a SAHM/WOTH debate, it is a judgemental WITH(working in the home) mother attacking her perception of the WOTH parents who leave their children with her.

I reckon she feels guilty at working and is hence projecting her guilt at the other parents, which is why she wants to get rid of her mindees early. She needs to rethink her life, seething with anger everyday is not a good way to live and I pity the small children in her care.

I have found on this thread that those who took the most exception for being judged for what they do were the WOHM. Why is that? I never once judged anyone for the choices they made. I only said that I think that children for the most part probably prefer to be with their parents. I am a SAHM and for those who didnt read it this is one particular response I got:

viggoswife... don't you ever aspire to, I dunno.... more?

Even your name.. you are someone's wife

You champ at the bit to have your kids home again, do they define you?

Don't you just want to be you for a bit? If you keep doing this you will have a big empty hole and an unfulfilled life when they leave home.

How many cliches and judgements can there possibly be in one post? This poster managed to incorporate pretty much all negativity attached to being a SAHM all in the one post. Well done that poster. Worst thing is it was actually another woman who posted that to me and it was all in response to me saying that I enjoy being with my children. Attitudes like this ensure there will never be a reasoned debate between SAHM and WOHM on Mumsnet or probably anywhere else.

notsosure summed all it up for me but somehow her views are more acceptable because she works. So therefore a WOHM who wants to be with her child is fine a SAHM who wants to be with her child is...... see above.

blueshoes - I don't know your circumstances, but I need to work as I don't have rich husband/house setting I could use to childmind etc etc.

I am quite happy with my situation actually, I am sad that on this thread you feel the need to attack anybody who disagrees with you.

You must have a chip on your shoulder

I have recently switched to working from home and flexitime, so I actually enjoy the odd afternoon off with dd (CM is paid f/t)as I can catch up with work at week ends/evening. I enjoy every minute of my time with her as we have coffee together or meet with some of her friends from school.

It's just a different perception of what is quality time....just accept that we are not all the same and some of us might actually try and enjoy to catch time with our dcs because we work full time....

viggo's wife- there is a lot of ignorance on both sides. Some wm's need to put down sahm's to feeel good about themselves and some sahm's have to put down wm to feel good.
No one is a spokesperson for the other side and some people are just stupid and resentful.
Take a deep breath and let it go. Any sensible person won't thin its wierd that you want to be with your children.
I chose to stay at home with mine until they went to school [one down, one to go]because I wanted to and felt it was best for the children.
Doesn't mean I have to put down wm's to feel good about myself.
There are some very insultuing comments on both sides
It's lovely that you are practising attached parenting

viggoswife, I can see why you got a hard time on this thread. Your posts read as if you are smug with your choice of SAHM status and you made several comments about how you were very comfortable with your choices, implying that other WOTH mums are not comfortable.

Before you ask yes I am a SAHM and I am comfortable with my choices, that is how I read your posts and I suspect other mums read the same things, hence the posts made to you.

BTW many mums have no choice whether to work or not. Whatever we decide as parents we can not have it all. We have to decide how to juggle career, money, children, relationships and we all do the best we can with the situation we find ourselves in.

If I thought my childminder was thinking along the same lines as Tori and some others on here, I think I'm chose to go elsewhere.

My CM has never said she minds me picking up DD at the usual time even if I have left work a little early, tbh she prefers it because I either need to be there before the school run (which is not possible) or afterwards which is when she gets picked up anyway.

When I was sick in December (and in hospital for a time) the CM was invaluable. She picked my daughter up on two mornings due to me not being able to do anything, and offered to drop her home if necessary. I'd have been lost without her, and tbh as I was so sick, she at least provided some consistency for DD whilst I was in hospital, and DH was struggling wrt juggling everything.

My childminder is still in contact with kids she minded for twenty years ago. I'm moving (hopefully) about 10 miles away from my CM but I'm still going to travel there daily to drop DD off as I wouldn't want to take my child away from the woman she cares about and all the other mindees.

So picking her up on time rather than early doesnt bother me as I know she's happy and having fun.

Only skimmed the first few pages...but what struck me was that mnay of the mums who would leave thier children at the CM when not working were tyring to justify it it terms of 'being best for the children' and 'needing to do other chores', WHY????

Why can't women justifably say I just need some time on my own every week?' or 'It's the only time I get to read my book these days?' or 'I enjoy shoppong for clothes for myself?' These should be equally valid statemnts for a women, who is also a mother, to make.

We do not all have to have feelings of 'wanting to spend as much time with our children as possible' some women love their children but do not necssarily find the mothering role totally fulfilling.

We seem to have reached a state where thuis has become an accepable thing to say, all mothers are expected to be devoted and selfless, or the retort 'why have children is thrown at them.'

Most mothers dearly love their children but can still have different attitudes to the actual role of mothering.

Mothers are just women. Women all differ from each other in terms of their own needs, desires, opinions and outlooks. We are all going to be differenet types of mothers.

Please stop peddling the myth that there is only one 'correct' way to be a mother and we should all adhere to it. It is damaging to all women.

And it makes me bloody FURIOUS!!!

blueshoes I agree with you about learning about different POVs through these debates, but from reading nearly the whole thing last night there just seemed so many attacks from both 'sides', and very little compromise or understanding, it's hard to see the benefits of talking about it.

I also think that even though it wasn't from the OP, it's turned into a SAHM/WOTH debate because those two things can almost be a state of mind, regardless of your actual situation. So the CM/OP thinks like a SAHM even though she isn't technically (i.e. quantity rather than quality time), and I think that's what everyone has picked up on.

I dont think I got a hard time on this thread apart from that one post. Perfectly reasonable exchange of views I thought. I dont mean to come across as smug BabiesEverywhere. If you notice at no point did I criticise anyone for their choices. Only offered my opinion that most kids probably prefer to be with their parents if they can be and I used the holiday survey to support that opinion. I still do believe it.

I am happy with my choices though. I feel very lucky to be able to spend all this time with my kids as they grow up. I dont have a rich husband and it has not always been easy financially for us but it was just how we wanted it to be. Should I not express that because it makes others uneasy? There are a lot of WOHM on this thread and others shouting about how happy they are with their choices but when I say it I am smug. I think it all runs very much deeper than a thread on MN can address TBH.

But as you say mrsruffalo, deep breath and let it go.

Smileyspeople, I think people say they don't collect early to do chores is because ... erm, they use that time to do chores? I know in my case I do and I work pt, I can only imagine that ft WOHPs have even more need to get chores out of the way during that time. Tori's example was of a parent who never collected early for a combined total of 2 half-days ie one fullday. That is not a lot of time for chores if for the rest of it you are working ft.

I do agree with your point that people should not be ashamed to admit to wanting me-time. I fully support WOHP or SAHPs in doing that, rather than martyred statements that children are only happy with their parents every waking moment.

As for children being happy with their cms etc, that is a BIG reason why I don't collect my dcs early. If they were indeed unhappy, I would rush back every day and probably re-think my childcare arrangements. If I did rush back even though my children were happily playing and insisted on taking them home, then I think I would be doing it for ME more than my children. Which is fine, just I would have the insight to recognise that rather than say that it is best for my children.

Blueshoes if you are using the time to do chores fine, seems a good idea to me.

My point was more that women felt they could only justify not picking them up if they were using their time productively to further the household/childrearing in some way.

It seems un acceptable somehow to say 'no i don't want to see them all the time, sometmines I priortities other things that I'd just like to do better that afternoon.'

A staemnt such as this would render you a bad mother and therefore a bad person in many poeples eyes, both here on Mn and insociety.

Read the book 'the Mommy myth' it explains it better than me.

Basically, we are being controlled by an ideal.

Yes, I was thinking of starting a new thread asking: Am I being unreasonable to think childminders should give parents some money back if they collect their kids early?