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Original poster

To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

528 replies

mrsneate · 13/06/2023 21:48

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 13/06/2023 23:02

No is perfectly valid response. It’s very easy for anyone here to volunteer someone else’s life, but you and your kids are the ones that would have to live with the reality of that.

it’s absolutely fine to put yourself and your own kids first. You didn’t create this, and it’s not your responsibility to solve it.

whynotwhatknot · 13/06/2023 23:03

purplepencilcase · 13/06/2023 23:00

I'd take the kids, 100 times over.

I'm sorry you have been out in this position.

thats helpful

MillbankTower · 13/06/2023 23:04

Confusion101 · 13/06/2023 22:55

OP has already answered this

We own our house and we have worked hard to buy our beautiful home for my boys.. moving isn't an option

Show quote history

I know
I posted the question. The OP replied
Someone else posted that I was wrong- my 2nd response was to them and not the OP

whynotwhatknot · 13/06/2023 23:05

Is there a reason they havent asked your other brother and sil

thecrispfiend · 13/06/2023 23:06

I think you have gone above and beyond already but need to prioritise your own children. Social services will put the pressure on as placing with family member is much simpler and cheaper than foster carers. My brother was left with 3 children and is a brilliant dad - we support him a lot but even that has taken its toll and because they have emotional issues due to their mother leaving I understand how hard it is taking on upset kids and that's without the considerations of space time and finances! I honestly don't think you are in a position to take them in, your brother has had plenty of chances this is on him. You can still stay in touch snd support but you are their auntie with kids of your own not their parent . Good luck OP

Hopelesscynic · 13/06/2023 23:08

Setting · 13/06/2023 22:59

I wouldn’t take them.
SS are hands off as they know you’ll step in, and it’s cheaper (free) for them. If they compensated yo the same as a foster carer then it’s different. You can’t throw your own kids under the bus and if your brother can’t manage it by now with all this support then maybe they need to be permanently lplaced. Everyone is right that if he were a female he wouldn’t be cut so much slack.

Agree with this. It would be unfair to your children and you - 2 extra children are a lot to take on. Of course you want to help and I'd say do it 100% had your personal circumstances been different. But in your position, it would be extremely taxing on everyone and I honestly don't think it'd be that great for your nieces/nephews either.
Like the above poster pointed out, it's really wrong to compensate foster carers so generously but not apply the same to family members! Also, the fact foster parents are required to have a spare bedroom for the wellbeing of the child, yet that seems completely unimportant when it's relatives taking the children. Shit system.

OliveWah · 13/06/2023 23:08

YANBU. You don't have the space, and of course your own DC need to be your priority.

In your shoes, I would support SS with finding a foster family for them and then have regular visits/contact with the children, without having to take full parental responsibility for them. I'd be done with your DB though, he sounds like a total waste of space.

Foster care is not the horrific, last resort which some people seem to think it is. Our family fostered lots of children over the years and they were always very happy with us and thrived on the normality of routine and family life.

Dita73 · 13/06/2023 23:08

You can’t take them. It’s no good for you,your children or his children. Plus if you keep taking them in and bailing him out he’s never going to get his act together. I understand why you’d feel guilty but you have to get over it. Ultimately they’re his responsibility and the mother’s. Of course your instinct will tell you to say yes but it’s not practical for you or them. If he cares about them he might just sort himself out. If he doesn’t then they’re better off with a family who will care about them

MillbankTower · 13/06/2023 23:10

A foster parent for a child with behavioural needs would be on well above the national wage based on payments (particularly if through an agency)

Have you looked at the income that you might receive when considering your loss of income . £400 a week for a 16 year old with no additional needs and slightly less for the 11 year old.

That is why they try and set up cheap kinship arrangements - it means that the children dont get virtual schools help either and cant be fast tracked for SEMH or SEND support. They need to remain in care and properly fostered - even if it is a family arrangement

monsteramunch · 13/06/2023 23:10

purplepencilcase · 13/06/2023 23:00

I'd take the kids, 100 times over.

I'm sorry you have been out in this position.

Even if it meant having to quit your job which would, alongside the other upheaval for them, hugely impact your own children?

It's easy to say but when your own children are going to be massively, adversely affected, it really isn't that simple.

Poor OP shouldn't be made to feel guilty for being forced to put her own children first, as heartbreaking as it is for her to not be able to take her sibling's children on in the way she's being pressured to.

Original poster
mrsneate · 13/06/2023 23:10

whynotwhatknot · 13/06/2023 23:05

Is there a reason they havent asked your other brother and sil

He's not been as involved with the children as I have, and is in the same position as me but with 3 children at home and they both work full time

OP posts:
Minfilia · 13/06/2023 23:11

Well, your brother is an asshole, that’s for sure. There doesn’t seem to be any obvious reason that he can’t parent his children.

As to what I’d personally do… that’s a tough question. If I’d been asked that a few years ago about my DNs then I’d have taken them no problem…. But I honestly wouldn’t want to do it now. I suppose though if the alternative was them going into care then I wouldn’t have much of a choice, I couldn’t see that happen to family, even if it messed my own life up.

The 19YO is an adult obviously but the 11 year old is still very young and 16 year olds need a lot of support.

I hope someone else in the family can take them in. They don’t deserve this.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 13/06/2023 23:11

The support offered by SS often isn’t remotely like the support actually given.

we were promised the world when we took my nephew in - the lack of support was such he almost had to delay Uni as the social worker lost a form seven times. We didn’t get a penny of the financial support and none of the other support.

What your nieces and nephews need most right now is honesty. They don’t need a failed placement or more stress.

It might outwardly seem harsh to say no, but in the long wrong it’s a better option than taking them in knowing it’s going to fail.

Beaverbridge · 13/06/2023 23:12

Absolutely ridiculous SS trying to guilt trip/heavy hand you into taking them. I don't mean that cruelly, it's just not feasible with your own family and work etc.
There must be another solution.

Notamum12345577 · 13/06/2023 23:12

MillbankTower · 13/06/2023 22:33

Do you live in social housing?
If so you would be a priority for a larger property

Not always. We took my wife’s 2 sisters (pre teen and teen) a few years ago due to family illness. Housing said we weren’t entitled to a bigger property because no idea how long we would have them (though we had a parental order that was valid until they were 18!). That was after they had offered us one and we had accepted, then they decided. At the time we were in a 2 bed flat with a son and daughter. We got one in the end, as I found one in the worst road in the town and said we would be happy to have that one!

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 13/06/2023 23:13

Oh and everyone will always say they’d do it, that’s the privilege that never facing it - I was the same before I did do it.

HerbsandSpices · 13/06/2023 23:14

You have gone over and above to help your brother and his children. Everyone is older, the situation has changed. If you can't, you can't. Don't feel bad for needing to say no. It's not just about putting a roof over their head but having the time to take them to meet whatever appointment or other requirements social services will have, having to make your children give up a lot, giving up your future financial security and independence. You can be supportive by being a presence in their life without them having to live with you.

It's easy for other people to say 'take them', but they aren't in your position and haven't been asked to make the sacrifices you are being asked to make.

Are there other family members who can step up? I think it was said you have a brother. Why not him? Other aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents? Maybe it's someone else's turn.

Whenwillitallmakesense · 13/06/2023 23:14

Why can't people read the whole thread instead of repeatedly asking questions and making comments that have already been answered and addressed. Too many people just gagging to put in their own high handed, ignorant views on such an important subject rather than actually reading what OP has already written.

SoShallINever · 13/06/2023 23:14

drpet49 · 13/06/2023 21:58

I couldn’t let the kids go into the care system.

Sorry but I think thst attitudes like this perpetuate the myth that all kids in the care system are abused. I have several friends who are Foster carers and give their all to the children in their care.
It is far better that children are looked after by professional people who want to do that, than they are dumped on relatives who don't actually want them.

Remotecontrolatmyside · 13/06/2023 23:15

There isn't anything that would stop me taking my niece in this situation. I'd sleep on a sofa, eat beans on toast for years and change jobs if I had to. They're a child who is completely vulnerable.

Thistooshallpsss · 13/06/2023 23:15

Don’t be blackmailed by that appalling social worker you have stepped in three times and it hasn’t worked. Keep saying no and refuse to discuss it further. Good luck.

HerbsandSpices · 13/06/2023 23:16

SoShallINever · 13/06/2023 23:14

Sorry but I think thst attitudes like this perpetuate the myth that all kids in the care system are abused. I have several friends who are Foster carers and give their all to the children in their care.
It is far better that children are looked after by professional people who want to do that, than they are dumped on relatives who don't actually want them.

Show quote history

I've been a short term foster carer and I looked after those kids like they were my own.

JaneNormanBag · 13/06/2023 23:16

This reply has been deleted

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DrinkFeckArseBrick · 13/06/2023 23:16

This is so difficult. It sounds like you've done everything you can. Your brother sounds like he couldnt give less of a shit.

How close do you live? Close enough to pop in with food for the 11 year old and have her over sometimes? It sounds like it would be a tiny sticking plaster over a major problem though. I wonder if you refuse to be involved at all if the children will get what they really need...which sounds like a foster home, as there is no help and support that you can give your brother that will ever be enough to give those kids a decent life. It sounds like its borderline and the 'family support' might actually be swinging it in favour of keeping them there.