To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

The older sibling would be the first port of call as a carer surely, as the closest related adult?

It's finding the time.

For example. Last week I worked thurs Friday sat nights

My children came home from their dads Sunday evening. They've been in school. I've had a few evenings with them. And I'm back to work thurs Friday sat, then next week I'm tues day (which means my boys will go to their fathers Monday night until wed after school, then I'm also thurs Friday nights, so they will be back with their father after school thurs until sat/Sunday. Then I'm Monday tues wed nights.

Not many people understand nursing shift patterns until they do them or live with someone who does it, I get very little precious time with my own children 😩

I'd want to say yes, but if you don't have the time, space or means then it's a non-starter. It would be completely unfair on your own children to make them live in poverty in overcrowded accommodation. So no, I wouldn't take them in your situation but I would do my very best to ensure that I saw them regularly and was a stable presence in their lives.

As for what that social worker said to you, words fail me. Unnecessary, untrue and bloody cruel. Please complain.

I wouldn't do anything to help my "D"B gets the DC back either. He's an unfit parent and is putting his kids through hell.

He's 19. And has his own mental health problems, he wouldn't be able to care for them

Don’t take them.

Can‘t believe posters glibly saying ‚take Them‘ as if it’s so easy. We are in a similar situation and likely won’t take my nephew as it would mean facilitating contact with aggressive parents, we don’t have the space or Money, primary care would fall to me (and he knows me the least), and my daughter is scared of him (tho he’s younger). He would be better off with a local foster family.

This....

They won't want to do it. You'll have to go to court. It's a hassle. BUT you'll be paid properly with proper allowances for the kids expenses.

THAT SAID... if you do t want to do it because you don't have the capacity... DON'T!! AND don't feel guilty this is your brothers mess not yours!

I complained two years ago when I got a very similar attitude for saying I couldn't take all three in due to me having to work shifts. It fell on deaf ears, I even arranged a meeting at the end of a conference with the chair person, because the SW piled on the guilt every single time we met.

She kept trying to show up at my house unannounced telling me she had every right to. I took legal advice and as I wasn't under investigation for my own kids she didn't have any rights!

,I get very little precious time with my own children

And they will get less if you take in two children - well adolescents - with emotional issues due to their poor parenting.

You need to say "No" as you need to look after your own kids properly. One of your kids is ND so you need to support that.

Are there any distant relations so cousins, aunts, etc who have grown up children and aren't ill? If so give SS their details.

Can't the 19 and 16 year olds clean the house? with the 11 year old helping ?

I thought there wasn't a law about leaving 11 year olds alone ?

There's got to be more to this than a dirty home.

Have you discussed any of this with your nephews OP.

And no you're not wrong to put your own children first.

how are you supposed to look after the 11 year old when on night shift? surly that wouldnt be allowed anyway

dont feel guilty is ss who have let them down not you

They are a priority if taking in CLA- and so go to the top of the list
The Op doesn't say where they I've but I know family fosterers who have got a 5 bed in a nice area within a couple of months in one major city.

What is your recent lived experience of this ?

None of this is your or the DC fault.
It's understandable if you can't take them and in some ways it'll be a good thing if the DC go to someone that's not family it may just make your DB realise that he can't always get you to look after them, he's either got to become a decent parent or lose his kids.

They deserve a chance to make something of their life so a good foster home may be the way to go.

The older two in theory are capable of looking after the 11 year old with the 19 year old being the guardian of his younger siblings, but clearly their poor parenting means they can't.

I agree with this. Kinship carers get a weekly allowance plus top ups for Christmas, birthdays etc. Ask the social worker what these are to see if that would impact your decision at all (eg. It may help you reduce work hours etc) obviously, only do that if there is any chance that you might be able to accommodate them.

As far as I know (in this area at least) it is difficult to be approved as a filter carer specifically for those children, not least because you don't have the necessary number of bedrooms and the fact you work full time (the rules will be different for kinship placements).

OP has already answered this

We own our house and we have worked hard to buy our beautiful home for my boys.. moving isn't an option

@MillbankTower my personal experience was waiting 4 years to be rehomed away from a psychopathic violent man in a relatively low housing demand area. You?

I don't often post, but I cannot believe the number of posters suggesting you just take them or go in and clean the house regularly.

You can't do this. You don't have capacity. It's not fair on you, your children or your nieces and nephews. They need to be moved to Foster care, to someone who has the time and experience to support them. You can visit and send card and gifts and support from afar. (If you want). But this is not your problem, so don't feel guilty. And when the dust has settled complain about that social worker.

They do it to try and get the case off their desk. And the more involved and helpful you are, the more they push.

You sound lovely and I'm sorry upi are going through this as it must be very upsetting.

No I.wouldnt take them, because it would be permanent and negatively change everything for me and my family. My children would suffer due to my loss of income, and space. Ss will end up removing them, and placing them into Foster care. Your career and children come first. Don't feel bad about that.

When you work night shifts and you've no bedrooms for them?

I wouldn’t take them.
SS are hands off as they know you’ll step in, and it’s cheaper (free) for them. If they compensated yo the same as a foster carer then it’s different. You can’t throw your own kids under the bus and if your brother can’t manage it by now with all this support then maybe they need to be permanently lplaced. Everyone is right that if he were a female he wouldn’t be cut so much slack.

The 19 year old works nights

The 16 year old is often out at his friends

For example. In half term, the 11 year old was left from 8 in the morning and at 10pm I had a call from one of my brothers friends saying she had knocked on the door, she couldn't get hold of dad and she was hungry, she'd been alone all day.

He is often unreachable on the phone. Even the dc's school will
Ring me often when they can't get hold of him,

When I finally tracked him down (after dragging my own dc out of bed to drive round to make sure he hadn't crashed his car!) he was about 40 mins away on a date. He's feckless, I lost my shit. It falls on deaf ears (I think it's the friend who reported this!)

I'd take the kids, 100 times over.

I'm sorry you have been out in this position.

Don’t feel guilty . Your own children come first and this would really impact negatively on them.

Stay in touch with them but don’t Home them/ foster them.

If you don’t have space for the children SS shouldn’t be asking you to take them

I don't get.thw anger towards the posters saying they'd take in the kids. The OP literally asked 'what would you do?'