To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

It's a shit situation but I'd take them. Children's homes are absolutely wretched places to be in. It's very unlikely they'd end up being fostered.

‘What would you do?’

I would put my own oxygen mask on first .( as they say on a plane) .

Hi OP,
I'm sorry you are in such a horrible position - and sorry the kids are in that position.

What I absolutely would not do - and would refuse to do - is to go and clean your brother's house. This is because a clean and organised house will mask the issues and give the impression that he is coping and can parent the children when clearly he cannot.

The 11 year old will still be neglected and hungry in an organised house (while it lasts) and that is still a miserable place to be.

As you are not in a position to take then I would support them being placed into Foster care - and I do not say that lightly or without knowledge of the care system. The 11 year old will be fed, cared for, and supported to be clean. You will keep in touch and raise any concerns about her Foster carers if you have concerns. Her father (or mother) cannot offer a safe/stable home. Support the children being removed - let the house remain uninhabitable - that is the concrete evidence that your brother is not able to parent.

The oldest should be offered housing if it is not fit to live at home. They might struggle to cope as have had poor role modelling and might have emotional difficulties as a result. Have they been in care before? They might have rights as a previously cared for child- which you could look into.

So what would I do? Accept that my brother was not a fit parent, that a clean house simply covers up for him and allows him to continue his neglect. Fight to tell services the mother is also not a fit parent and support a Foster placement.

I would not ask for a placement to be near me if it required them to move schools. Just let services find the best placement. They also might run away to Dad's house so local to him might be easier in terms of this in some ways otherwise they are crossing counties.

Time to accept the truth and not prolong the childrens' neglect any further. Your brother's right to be a parent is way less important than the children's right to be supported.

Also I think the people trying to guilt you into this arent being fair. If youd have to quit work, live in cramped conditions and affect your own kids wellbeing I'm not sure you will actually be best placed to provide support to troubled teens. That surely isnt in anyones best interests compared to a good foster placement who can spend time and energy on them

Absolutely this.

It's outrageous that they are asking you - you're in a 3 bed house, with a 16yo with additional needs, plus a 13yo in a box room. The 11yo girl is over 10 and can't reasonably be expected to share other than with another girl.

If you put the 16yo, who is likely to be angry and have attachment issues, in with your ADHD 16you that is a recipe for disaster. Your 13yo boy can't share with an 11 yo girl. You literally have nowhere to put them. You work as a nurse with shift patterns. You are not equipped for children of this age in care with their own inevitable needs.

I might be inclined to tell them that IF they apply for interim care orders then you would consider engaging with a viability assessment. You won't pass it, and they know perfectly well you won't pass it. I'm sure you're a terrific parent but viability is about whether you can manage THESE kids as well as your own bearing in mind your own circumstances.

I HAVE helped! A lot. Did you miss the part where they all lived with me for 8 months and I financially supported them?

Did you miss the part where I took my nephew in for three months?

I see my niece once or twice a week, at my house, when I can.

I have them over for dinner once a month or so, as every family probably does.

But OP has a duty of care to her own children and would need to leave her job, putting their stability at risk, to take on her sibling's children.

It's so easy to say you'd do this no matter what but it isn't simple when there are other children involved.

Her children are, and should be, her priority. Their needs being met, happiness and quality of life should absolutely be her primary concern.

She isn’t failing her niece and nephew at all. They’re no more her responsibility than they are yours.

Oh I feel so sad for the poor 11 year old. It sounds like the older boys are out and about doing their own thing and she’s being left alone (with no food). Eleven is such a young age. Is there no possibility of taking just her in? I understand how angry you must be with your brother, and rightly so, but it sounds like she is really suffering. Even if you worked shift work and she had to have some time alone in your house surely it would be better being at your place than cold and lonely and hungry at her current house? Perhaps even a sofa bed would suffice? Oh really does sound like anything would be better than her current situation.

The nerve ! I doubt the social worker would have said this if you were his brother instead of his sister. 😡

You have already done so much more than many others would have, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you putting your own family first.

You are perfectly reasonable to NOT have the kids but the reality is you will have them. This will have a huge impact on your life and noone should judge you if you decide not to.

Could you agree to have them part time with a foster carer doing the other time?

@JaneNormanBag what a nasty thing to post. I can't believe you've read this and come to the conclusion that OP is doing nothing.

Shame on you.

@JaneNormanBag

You should be ashamed of yourself for the post you made. It was disgusting and so uncalled for. Reported.

It sounds to me like you’re a very hard working kind caring Aunt. You can only do what you can. In my limited experience foster care sounds like the best solution, SS have a cheek to blame you when you’ve kept the family unit going. Sometimes it’s ok to say enough is enough & stop enabling your brothers poor parenting & let SS put onus on you. Good luck OP I raise my hat to you. Xxx

The best thing for that 11 year old is to be taken into foster care and cared for by someone who has the resources to focus on her well-being, and not on two other children including one who is ND.

That foster carer will be able to have more boundaries over the child seeing their chaotic immediate family than the OP.

OP ignore the guilt trippers. You're entitled to hold onto the career you worked so hard for. How would having up your job and getting benefits even work if you're a home owner? They don't cover mortgages.
You'd go from being an employed home owner to living in social housing on benefits and you will potentially never claw your life back.
The effects on your own children would be appalling. And you're entitled to put them first and love them most.

You've already gone above and beyond. Time for SS to actually do their jobs and expend their efforts on finding a solution for these children rather than bullying you.

Equally it wouldn't be for a bit, the 11 year old girl would have to share with my 13 year old boy.

My 16 year old adhd medicated child would have to share with his 16 year old cousin who has unsurprisingly has mental health issues

How would this do ANY of the children any good? Mine, or his?

I would have to quit my job, how would I pay the mortgage and bills?

It's not a case of my children having a nice life and screw theirs, my kids haven't had it easy either until recently. It is a case of losing my home, their home, my career. That I have to provide for my children.

The time alone would mean. All night. I go to work at 6:30pm and don't get home until 8:30am. I work approx 30 mins from home and in a job I can say "oh I need to pop home" I'm caring for very sick newborns and premature babies in intensive care.

Wow, so you're his mother? And he's ok to spend what sounds like a decent income on.. whatever, while it's your responsibility to raise his kids with no financial help from anyone including him?

Ignore the idiot poster op dont rise to it

You would probably get about £1000 a week in allowances (not through kinship). So if that is the main barrier then there is possibly a solution?

But that doesnt help with career or overcrowding

It sounds like you're already doing most of what you can, really, without quitting your job.

I would try to take the 11 year old in as much as poss for dinner etc.

There's nothing more you can do and your bro will never shape up with you picking up the pieces for him. He'll possibly never shape up anyway.

You CAN'T take his children, it's simply not possible. You have to work, you have to ern a living to keep yourself and your own children off the streets. I think SS are desperate due to inadeqate funding and other resources so will turn to any port in a storm, even if it means your family will suffer and you'll end up on benefits.

With luck they'll find some kind, oatient gentle temporary foster family to take the children, who will make sure that family ties are continued.

I would absolutely take the kids in but can understand why you feel you can’t.

YANBU. It isn't possible, practically, in your situation, so that should be the end of it. Emotions, morals and hand wringing aside.