To say no to social services re: my niece and nephews...

[mrsneate]

To cut a long story short, this is the fourth time in 9 years social services are involved with my brother and his children.

The first time. I drove 200 miles with no notice to collect Brother and his three kids. They lived with me for 8 months. It was hell. Small 3 bed house, 3 children of my own and my ex husband (we were still married) I supported them all financially, got them into schools, he was then given a council property, the children were taken off the register (on it because of their mum)

Fast forward 3 years, a neighbour reported him for various things. They were put back on the register, my brother worked with them, I supported him.

18 months ago, 2am police knock on my door with my eldest nephew. (16 at this point!) him and dad had gotten into a physical fight, could I take him, of course I said yes, the next day social worker came round, when police had entered their property. It was t fit to live in. Stinking dirty, rubbish everywhere.

Me and my SIL (other brothers wife) went round, and blitzed his house, I did 20 loads of washing, 16 dishwasher cycles. The house was spotless.

They asked me to take all 3. I couldn't, I work full time night shifts and was a single parent, my nephew was with me for 10 weeks with no support from
Social services or my brother financial or otherwise, then my nephew was 17 and could decide he wanted to go home. He went home. Case was closed

This week, I randomly had a phone call from a social worker. There had been an anonymous report from someone that he was leaving the youngest alone for long periods (she's 11) and there was no food in the house. He's drinking all the time, the house is a state.

I only ever see my brother these days when he pops to my house with my niece. She always looks clean.

They told me it's looking like it's going down the route of removing the children (11 and 16?) and would I be in a position to take them in, until he decides to cooperate and work with them, told them no, although I'm no longer single, my fiancé works away for months at a time and I still work night shifts, and still only live in a 3 bed house with 2 of my boys (oldest has moved out) she got really arrogant with me after that. I pointed out they need to stop closing the case, keep them on the register.

But guilt is eating me up, there has been a suggestion they go back to their mother. But that will be a disaster. I have text my brother and offered to help him clean the house. Again, but I am
Pissed off with him, and it's annoying me that he keeps having passes because he's a male single parent! He works school hours and earns good money, he's not skint.

What would you do?

It's like how easy spending other peoples money isnt it. Volunteering someone else's time and resources.... 🙄

Don't be ridiculous. He hasn't dumped anything on anyone. These kids are not his responsibility and his brothers fuck ups are not his fault. If the OP has chosen to help that's her decision.
But the brother is not bad for deciding to wahs his hands of this mess.

@KingsHeath53 oh i can well believe it. Im 50 now (well as of tommorrow) and when i started telling people at 21 that i didnt want children i was seen as unusual , told i must hate kids, and when i was on a TV chat show to discuss this (ive been on three) i had "your"re not human" yelled at me by someone with an American accent (im in the UK to clarify) And i encountered all these attitudes from the working class community in the 90s/early 2000s IMO there is a lot of misogyny in working class communities. Child free by choice men dont even get a whisper against their decision.

Yeah thats a point Why hasnt he been prosecuted.

He earns good money but he's not very organised with it,.. so I think doing this would fail at the first hurdle. If that makes sense. I could set them up, but the house would need to have a good clean and sort out first. Which I've offered. He hasn't responded. But I suspect the direct debit would fail. It's a good idea though!

It's frustrating and I just don't understand why he can't prioritise his children and give them a decent life.

I have no idea. He was kept in cell for 24 hours the time my nephew was brought to me. Not sure of the outcome of that.

Social services are attempting to dump the situation on the OP, but not a whiff of them pressuring her other brother in the same way.

He can get himself together to go on dates so i assume he knows his way around a dating app. How does he think most women would react if he brought them back to his place.

Probably because they either don't have his details or because he isn't making himself available.

Or because it’s very common to dump things on a female whose repeated “no” isn’t being respected…

I'd do this. If I had more space I'd take both.

My dd is 11, the thought of her being neglected and unwanted breaks my heart.

It's also very common for posters on MN to pull absolute bull out of anywhere with zero evidence.

You mean apart from the several of us on the thread who’ve experienced it?

The Op has repeatedly told the SW she can’t do it. She’s being repeatedly pressured by the SW.

No pressure on the brother.

Know the brither and his story personally do you?

I live in a one bedroom social housing flat. I have an alcoholic living underneath me. His elderly mother comes round and gives him money and food. Which he then spends on booze. He has banged on his ceiling because he objects to us simply walking around the flat He bangs on the ceiling when i switch on my washing machine........at 3pm. We have had loud music from him at 1am. IMO his mother is helping to enable all this.

Alcoholism is an illness. It’s so hard for those around him but i really do believe alcoholics are sick, and need help.

Like you do…

Zero mention of him being put under pressure by the OP He's not been as involved with the children as I have, and is in the same position as me but with 3 children at home and they both work full time

Yet the op has even had suggestions of asking her ex to mind them while she works.

As the adoptive mother of two teens who has a fair amount of contact with Social services. I would say stand your ground. As your brother seems unable to keep a clean and tidy house why not suggest to him that he have a cleaner come in a couple of times a week plus do the washing as he can afford it. Also, why not organise a supermarket delivery of easy to make food and essentials so that it comes every week. At least they would have food and a clean home.

I think well-meaning people suggesting online food deliveries, cleaners, boarding school (!) etc are not getting it. This is a man who cannot and will not look after his kids. He is prioritising his needs over theirs. He wouldn’t be in to accept food deliveries. The cleaner would refuse to go there etc.

This is deep-seated and chronic neglect. Anything now is just a sticking plaster. These kids need to get away from this awful environment. Ideally to somewhere where they will have their own rooms, some privacy and quiet with a caregiver who is around most of the time. That’s not the OP.

I find it incredible that you wouldn't be offered any money for taking them in, when foster carers have a decent allowance.

What if you took them but only as a foster placement with associated costs paid? You could use the money to go part time at work?

Exactly. one of the children is 11.

Generally on fab that’s only just considered old enough to walk themselves to school without an adult.

Yet with online food deliveries and a cleaner she can somehow stay with her feckless father?!

She doesn't want to go p/t at work, and it wouldn't solve anything anyway.

So you have a large extended family that are supporting each other. Not everyone has that. That makes a huge difference as to whether you can help. I'm dealing with challenging circumstances on my own with no family to support whatsoever. This also means there are no children I'd need to take in like OP, but it means I also know I couldn't do it as no-one is helping me. I couldn't add to my unsupported load.

Ifind it incredible that you wouldn't be offered any money for taking them in, when foster carers have a decent allowance
I am certain if someone in ops position shouts and demands loud enough money would be found because it would still be cheaper than going into full time ressi care.
However in Ops shoes I would not e taking other people's children on, even if they were my brothers.
It destroys the established family dynamic, ops living space as well as carreer opportunity. Op will not have any free time because of the extra work load as well as going to regular meetings with social workers , with school school nurse a d everyone else they can think off turning up.

I posted earlier but I think foster care with regular contact is the best option.

I'd 100% take them and keep them until they were old enough to live independently. I'd sleep on the floor, use foodbanks, sell stuff, whatever it took to be able to keep my family safe and secure. How could you even question it?
yeah, whatever!!

There’s a difference between helping someone, and enabling them.

all the talk about doing X, Y and Z for him is enabling him. Why does he need to put in the work to keep his children when others will do it for him? Even if his children do go, what has that actually meant for him? They go to their aunts for a bit, and come back. He knows they’re safe, so where’s the harm? Basically they all, barring OP, get a holiday.

He’s got zero motivation to change while OP is there to pick up the pieces and shield him from the consequences of his own actions. Why should he when he’s got everyone else doing the grunt work?

The other brother either doesn’t care whatsoever, or knows this and that’s why he’s not engaging. Either way, he’s not in any way wrong for recognizing it’s not his responsibility to put himself and his own family at a disadvantage because of his brother. The social worker may well have tried him and got nowhere from the very start, so she’s gone for the easy target, and that’s OP.

The best thing OP has done so far is to say no.