AIBU to think throwing a mum-of-four in prison for having an abortion is never the answer?

[therescoffeeinthatnebula]

Spotted this on Twitter and haven't seen it already being discussed.

Apparently, a woman is being sentenced today for having an abortion over the limit during lockdown. I don't know of the circumstances (can't find anything other than the Sunday Times article), only that she already had four children and claims she didn't know exactly how far along she was.

I think most of us would agree making medical appointments during lockdown was bloody difficult and that it's even harder to attend any appointment if you have children, given you're not normally allowed to take them with you.

Whatever the truth, I'm appalled to see a woman potentially thrown in prison for trying to seek an abortion during lockdown, especially when you look at how violence against women is treated. I'd have thought referring her for mandatory counselling would be more of an appropriate outcome than prison because finding out you aborted what could have been a viable baby has got to mess with anyone's head.

It's all very sad - she should have been able to access proper services earlier - but prison, to me, should never have been on the table as a consequence.

I didn't actually realise that abortion in this country was blanket illegal and that our rights to seek abortions up to the limit are actually exceptions to that law rather than a piece of legislation that stands on its own.

They don't give a shit about alive children. They use the unborn as a stick to beat and control women. Forced birthers hate women.

Oh god this is awful.

I cannot believe prison will do her ( or her children ) any good.

I do not believe she should have been jailed and cant actually believe that's the outcome.

The judge made comment about being bound by law, and that any reform needs to be done by MPs. He’s signalling the need for it, imo. Ironically, and sadly, imprisonment may indeed be the outcome that most likely provides the impetus to get on and do it.

I don’t think she will serve the full term of imprisonment.

This is horrifying

This has made me really angry.

28 months, those poor poor children. I can't imagine what this must be doing to the mother too.

Ah that's just heartbreaking. I hope her children can stay together and be with family while she's in prison. It's going to have a huge negative effect on their lives, especially the child with SEN.

I think the fact that what different women perceive to be the point at which a foetus becomes a baby varies so much really highlights why choice should always be a matter for the pregnant woman herself, and everyone else should butt out, tbh.

No-one should force any woman to terminate a pregnancy against her will and no-one should force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term against her will, either. Not the church, not the state.

I don't even think the law in general should be changed, but it should very much have been taken into account the effect of lockdown on abortion services. I hope this was considered heavily by the judge as someone conducting it today would still evidently need support and help as did this woman did and probably still does; but they'd have the opportunity and the choice to see someone face to face, to have a scan and to be able to engage quickly with someone rather than the shit show that was during covid.

He's not bound by law in the sentencing. Judges can depart from sentencing guidelines if they feel it is in the interest of justice to do so. I don't think there is anything just about this sentence.

I agree with a time limit on terminations but am horrified by this case having been charged and sentenced. Not in the public interest and morally indefensible.

It's striking that a man can get off scot-free for rape because of the 'impact on his career,' or the judge 'does not know which prison to put him into; it but a woman at low risk of reoffending receives a custodial sentence that impacts on her life and the lives of her children.

What do you think a GP (who don't actually have anything to do with abortions) would have done during covid and the height of lockdown? Do you know that she didn't contact them?

Fuck. Poor woman, and her poor kids.

Actually, I hope it may be suspended, and if so I'll shame myself for NRTFT.

@therescoffeeinthatnebula - I used your photo of the article to do a keyword search on the Times website (in addition to searching articles from the author) and no matching article came up.

The date of the article isn't visible on the photo, is it definitely from yesterday's Sunday Times?

As a subscriber, you can access every single article that has been published by both the Times and Sunday Times.

If anyone is able to find the article online (behind the paywall), I'd be happy to create a share token for it. It would be usual for the article to be updated online with the outcome from the court case.

The sentence is an absolute disgrace.

Yes the system failed her and the foetus. Abortion services should never have been essentially moved online and incredibly challenging/impossible to access during lockdown.

Oh, I know. My point is though that a suspended sentence is less likely to fire people up and call for reform. Imprisonment, however, does just that. In terms of visuals she’s a sympathetic figure, much moreso than a childfree woman would be.

I wasn’t there to ‘read’ the judge, but based on the comments shared so far I do wonder if that played a part in his decision.

People who hurt children notoriously don't do well in prison. I hope the other inmates will recognise the complexities in this case.

I dont know how to feel about this.

Those pills at 28 weeks could have been really unsafe to her own health and the foetus and I wonder if it could have triggered birth and resulted in a high risk of the baby being been born alive but severely disabled.

If she had sought an abortion at 28 weeks and been clear that she was feeling suicidal (strong risk to maternal health) I wonder if she would have been granted a safer abortion.

I dont necessarily disagree with late term abortion but if the way she carried it out posed significant risks of lifelong harm to a foetus which may, through that method, have become a severely disabled, surviving baby, then I feel quite conflicted.

I think there is probably more to it. Perhaps she felt unable to seek an abortion due to her relationship. I dont know. None of us do. Just seems very sad all round.

Something I can't get out of my head. The other 4 kids missing out on their potential sibling :(

Imagine growing up and the kids wondering what their other sibling would have been like.

Yep, so long as they are alive what else matters 🤔

Separated from their mother, possibly not even able to stay together or with family (not many people can take in three extra children, one with additional needs).

It's likely that they will be separated and in foster care, with all of the additional risks of abuse and grooming that that involves.

The embarrassment that everyone knows that their mum is in prison and why.

But yes, at least they are alive. What a cold dismissal of possibly the worst thing that will ever happen to them.

Who is to say they will be concerned about a ‘missing sibling’ at all, over you know, their actual mother?

I think going without their mother for the next 2 years will be more damaging to them.

As I said, a lot we don't know, including any GP involvement. I think if you call your GP and tell them you are pregnant and desperate for an abortion, they would be duty bound to advise.