To stay in loveless marriage because we cannot afford to separate

[Hillbilly]

Our marriage is dead although we rub along ok together. Two DCs, 17 and 15. There is no way we can afford to live separately and provide two homes for them. The 17 yr old still has another year in education and because we live in London and he may not go to Uni (although he would want to leave home- that's another story - so difficult to afford to live here independently) then realistically we would both need places that can accommodate both kids. DS2 poss may go to Uni but who knows. Both of us self employed and we love the area we live in. To sell the flat (ex council) would not give either of us enough to buy again. My business is heavily dependent on the area we live in (wealthy client base). Both on our mid/late 50s. We have talked about it but no solutions 😞

I don't mean mismatched values, I meant what people value enough to stay.
Financial security? A 'life partner' they can do stuff with?

I have dated people who were fundamentally 'good' and did what they were supposed to. Because of that I would say 'good communication' i.e. they would do the school run, not be stingy, etc.

However we didn't actually have much in common, enough to want to spend time together as a couple. And I have seen this pattern across many couples, beyond the kids there's nothing to talk about. People change too, across the decades of life.

Some people value financial security above all else and so opt to stay, preferring to fill the gap with friends. Some choose to break up, and find that life partner who accompanies them on trips, shared hobbies etc.

I appreciate this perspective...I guess we are all clouded by our own experiences/observations and I guess I've seen so many awful, awful relationships.

Also I suppose I'd been misunderstanding what good communication means until your comment - I assumed if you communicate well then you must be spending time together in order to do so. But as you put it, it could just mean texts like "I'm late for school pick up, can you do it today - sure i can do pickup, we need milk so grab that on your way home". In that case, yeah that's not good communication in my book.

Good communication, for me, means sharing your hopes/fears, opinions, wants/needs, day-to-day feelings, long term goals etc. If you can do that with someone, that's...a good marriage in my view.

But we don't know which type of "good communication" op and her dh have.

Most couples divorcing have to change location and move to a cheaper area or cheaper street. With the money from a house in London you could both afford somewhere in the suburbs or kent etc . In the end you have one life and yesterday has gone. Once the children leave then what. I have a friend who stayed in a loveless marriage. Her H had a terrible accident. She is now his carer and hates it. But she can’t walk away now as she made her bed.

My business is prob at the max it can be in the format it is.

Reformat? Franchise? Sorry I’m such an insufferable Pollyanna that I’m trying to see that as an opportunity. I hate seeing a woman having her happiness so dependent on a man.

and you’ll have to sell (or remortgage) anyway when your mortgage term ends. I’d do it now. And be happy.

The interest only mortgage is a real concern. I hope you are on a very low long term fixed rate. With a repayment mortgage you get to a certain point where you start clearing a tiny part of the principal and each year it gets better. With an interest only mortgage how do propose to pay it off? The bank will not be kind. They will want their money at the end of the term. This would be my main concern.

Does your Dh not contribute much then - if you're at maximum capacity what is HE doing?

We contribute equally to household expenses including mortgage

Mine too. Much better to address this now than get the end of the term and be forced into decisions.

Much better to address this now than get the end of the term and be forced into decisions.

There is a middle ground though. Stay in the flat until the Dc have finished school.

If your mortgage is interest only and you have no plans to pay it off you might as well cut your losses , sell it and move on. You might be able to get on the ladder in a cheaper part of the country ?

If you’re otherwise comfortable, want to maintain your lifestyle, and remain in the area in which you live, then it’s absolutely legitimate to prioritise those things and make that choice.

Financial security is important, and the reality is that without that you can find that freedom from one prison is merely a transfer to another.

Do you have two bedrooms or three?
How long do you expect it to be before you can have your own bedroom?

Are you sharing a 4'6" standard double bed at the moment? If so can you at least move to twin beds or a superking?

We aren't comfortable financially but slightly improved since I started my business. We have been hand to mouth in the past. Our "lifestyle" is nothing to write home about. We get by.
We need to have a frank discussion about the mortgage that's for sure.

@Blip it's a large double. At least a year before freeing up another room.

It's not that we have no plans to settle the mortgage, we have some of it covered. We probably need to speak with our accountant.
Neither of us would want to leave London. For each of us our whole support network is here. It's home. I realise that may sound unrealistic.

@whumpthereitis

"Financial security is important, and the reality is that without that you can find that freedom from one prison is merely a transfer to another."

Exactly this.

@jajajajaja

Not being able to afford to live anywhere remotely near where their businesses are and not being able to provide 2 lots of housing for the dc will not make for happy parents. That's the point. That is the whole point of the post.

All of this. ^ It's all very well saying LTB! Many people on here say this but how many have actually done it? Also, the older you are, and the more entwined your lives are, (and especially when kids are involved,) the harder it becomes to leave. Many women downgrade their career/work life, and their income takes a hit, and it's really hard to make ends meet on their own. FFS it's hard enough with a double income. As you say, they won't be '2 happy parents apart' if they're on the bones of their arse, with fuck-all to their name, like many people ARE when a couple split up.

Soooo many posters on here claim they left their DH, or someone they know did, (at 50-55!) and went on to do a uni degree, get a £50K per year job, a whole new bunch of friends, a quirky little apartment in a 'naice' area of town, and a shiny new man (always younger - and great at sex.) 🙄

The reality for the vast VAST majority of women is that she will be alone, poor, living in a squalid flat/bedsit on her own, will have very few friends (all the friends in couples will keep their distance,) and she will be working all the hours God sends in a minimum pay job just to make ends meet.

No Jason Mamoa lookalike with a 20 million pound bank balance, a Ferrari, and a 7 bedroom house in Cheshire (with 15 acres of land,) is going to come and sweep her off her feet. Truth be told, not that many men are going to be looking for a woman who is 48-50+, when they're on the hunt for a new romantic partner. A few will. Many will not. Many women in that age group will also find it hard to get a job with a decent amount of hours, let alone forge a shiny new career.

There seems to be SO many posters on here who claim they (or LOADS of people they know,) left their husband after 25-30 years plus, and went on to have a shiny new life full of wonder, riches, fabulous friends, a lovely boho apartment, a great career, and a lovely sexy man 15 years younger than them. In real life, I have never known this happen. The woman who is living on the bones of her arse and struggling to make ends meet, with few friends, and fighting to get more than 16 hours a week in their minimum pay job is the norm, NOT the chick-lit novel version with the amazing hew life.

DH earns OK, I earn less but still OK. Combined income, no kids at home, and no mortgage leaves us with a good amount of surplus income and a decent life. Nice car (only one, don't need 2,) a nice cottage in a lovely rural area, and decent holidays, meals out, day trips, and the ability to go and buy a new pair of shoes/trainers, new coat, new jeans, new haircut, new tops etc, without having to check we have enough money in the bank. Got a decent amount of savings. (Probably our combined salary for about 9 or 10 months.)

But if we split, there's no WAY I would be as well off alone. Yeah we could split the proceeds from the house, but my share wouldn't give me enough to buy something else. I'd need a mortgage of £100K to add to it to even buy a 1-bed flat, and like fuck am I buying a flat anyway! I would never take a £100K mortgage on alone in my early 50s... Probably wouldn't even get one! If I did, it would cost me about £900 a month, and I'd be paying it til I am 70!

Me and DH have had good times and bad times, we get on brilliantly sometimes and are soulmates, and have some great times together. Other times I want to slap him around the head with a wet haddock, and wish he'd fuck off the the far side of fuck. It can be a relief when he goes out to work, and I have the house to myself, and also it can be a relief when he comes home, and I feel at peace with him there, and love chatting to him, and I do love him. That's marriage. That's a relationship. That's what it's like. (For us and many others.)

My marriage, for the most part is fine, though it's had its ups and downs, but would I trade financial security, a lovely cottage in a middle class village, a nice car, holidays abroad, good surplus income, luxuries when I want them, only having to work 18 hours a week etc, for a life alone, being forced to work full time, living in a little private let flat that takes half my wages, no-one to chat to at home, no-one at breakfast, no-one at supper, no-one to say 'let's go to the beach for the day' to, no-one to go for an impromptu pub lunch with, no-one to go on holiday with, no-one to share life's burdens and trials with??? Nope.

Even if my marriage was loveless (and it's not,) I would still stay. My life is much better with my husband, than it would be without him. For many reasons. We have had some times over the years when I have questioned everything, and wondered whether I should leave/whether I'd be better off leaving etc (especially in the first 10 years,) but now - after nearly 30 years together, I am SO glad I stayed. So is he!

And don't anyone ask 'what if HE decides to leave YOU?' It's a moot point, because he hasn't left me, and isn't likely to.

@Hillbilly NGL I would absolutely stay if I were you. Unless your marriage is crushingly bad, why leave? It's overrated being alone and poor LOL. As I say, so many posters on here celebrate it and promote it, as some fabulous existence, but for most (married) women (who are in a maybe not brilliant, but fairly OK marriage,) it's not a great idea to leave the marriage, and they are much better staying put.

@EbonyRaven thank you for your post. And to everyone else on each side of the fence.
This thread is very helpful to me. In part because it makes me realise I'm not alone, my situation is not uncommon.
I have the most wonderful friends who mostly live nearby. I could not imagine life with them as a support network. I work hard, exercise and have a good social like, albeit usually seeing friends in their homes or mine over a glass of wine rather than dinners out or anything else pricey.

😘 Good luck and peace and happiness whatever you decide! 😊

Seconding what others say: your situation is probably just about sustainable in the short to medium term but it's the lack of a long-term plan which is worrying.

I'm normally a confident advocate in divorce being the best option when a relationship has broken down and I don't believe in people martyring themselves "for the children" but in your case you do seem to rub along together in a fairly workable and cordial way. So I think you can paper over the cracks for a bit and possibly until both your children have left home. I can totally appreciate how destructive a split would be now if there's no urgent need for it.

What would concern me is that over time you seem not to have a gameplan. The relationship is tolerable now because its keeping the family together but over time that will ebb away: particularly if one or both of you become emotionally involved with someone else. This simply isn't sustainable if you are literally sharing a bed.

I would be inclined to sit down with your husband very calmly admit that you both want out of the marriage over time, you both realise this isn't something which will happen in the next 2-3 years or whatever it is, but that you need to put a plan in place. That should clear the air a bit and will allow you to focus. You may then be able to introduce your children to the idea in a cordial way so they can get their heads around it. By the time they do move out you will have got them used to it and hopefully can move forward with minimal disruption.

I'd officially separate and tell everyone, then live as flatmates for x amount of time until children have left, then sell the house and downsize. My aunt and uncle did this for 10 years, and quite honestly it was confusing for their kids and the rest of the family as we weren't sure what was going on. So I'd be honest at least about that to your kids, friends and family. I know a few couples who live together separate. Just be aware, one of you might meet someone else.

I think this is doable when the kids are about and you are working but once you both retire you might find it impossible. I like my husband but found it quite an adjustment when we both retired. 🫤 I think splitting up when you are older can be difficult too because of health issues and concerns about living alone.

“Truth be told, not that many men are going to be looking for a woman who is 48-50+, when they're on the hunt for a new romantic partner. A few will. Many will not. Many women in that age group will also find it hard to get a job with a decent amount of hours, let alone forge a shiny new career. “

I agree with most of this post but find the above extremely negative. I was 48 when I divorced, same as many of my friends. All the women I know including myself have gone on to meet men of their age. Yes there are the men who do date younger (including my ex) but there are men out there that want to date women of their age.

regarding jobs, if you have been a SAHP for many years then yes you will find it difficult to get a £50k job. But a lot of us don’t go 100% stay at home and manage to keep a career going for the very reason of you just don’t know what is around the corner. My divorce had no impact on my career. Yes obviously I have less disposable money as most costs are not halved when you live on your own. However, you can happy and have a very good life. The difference between the OP and my situation is that we had a repayment mortgage and pensions. That’s the OPs big mistake.

@NextTimeItsOver it's unlikely either of us will retire given the state of our finances.