To stay in loveless marriage because we cannot afford to separate

[Hillbilly]

Our marriage is dead although we rub along ok together. Two DCs, 17 and 15. There is no way we can afford to live separately and provide two homes for them. The 17 yr old still has another year in education and because we live in London and he may not go to Uni (although he would want to leave home- that's another story - so difficult to afford to live here independently) then realistically we would both need places that can accommodate both kids. DS2 poss may go to Uni but who knows. Both of us self employed and we love the area we live in. To sell the flat (ex council) would not give either of us enough to buy again. My business is heavily dependent on the area we live in (wealthy client base). Both on our mid/late 50s. We have talked about it but no solutions 😞

I agree with this. If you're not paying any of the capital off then you're not going to be any better off at the end of the term than you are right now - and you're going to owe the bank half the value of the flat. So what will you do then?

@OrchidsBlooming I agree, this is the biggest issue and a major worry for us

@EarringsandLipstick

"However, I can see no way you can indefinitely stay sleeping together in the same room, bed, when you have very firmly realised you no longer love each other or want to be together.

It's one thing if you have niggling doubts. Another entirely if you've reached that point of certainty."

Interestingly I find it easier now that it's not just a niggle, and that it's a certainty, weird though it sounds.

If its a 3 bed flat, could the boys share and you and ex have own rooms?

Since finances are the issue, I'd suggest consulting a financial advisor who may be able to lay out some options for you.

I'm surprised you have an interest only mortgage with no means, bar selling up, of paying off the capital. Have you had the same mortgage for a very long time? We had paid off our previous mortgage over a decade ago, then we bought a new place and needed a new mortgage for part of the cost.

We had always had interest only with a couple of endowment policies supposedly to pay off the loan (they didn't as it turned out but still gave us decent sums of money). We had one left when we took the new mortgage and, though it didn't cover the loan, this was allowed since the mortgage was a reasonably small percentage of the house's value. However we regularly took out a new deal every couple of years and quite a few years back they made a fuss about us having interest only as laws / guidance had changed. It went back and forth for a while till we just decided to go for a repayment mortgage, which now has only 2 years to run.

Op, it seems finances will be an issue if you stay together or separate. Have you both ignored the housing timebomb? If you are self employed assume you don't have pensions. Increasing income is the only way out of this until retirement.

Can you sit down and plan when to move out of London...perhaps in 3 years when youngest is at Uni. Start exploring what life could be like and work towards a goal.

@Onelifeonly it's a long and complicated story re the interest only mortgage. We will be able to pay approx a third of the mortgage straight away but that still leaves a huge chunk.

@Livinghappy there has just never been anything spare to put into a second pension (there was one but long story it had to be cashed in a long time ago). I can't give details as don't want to put myself. Anyway I fully accept it's a mess but this thread has given me food for thought

How do you feel OP about this current life being yours from here on in? I feel like there's a part if you that might be kind of ok with it, and see the pros of staying put? Picture yourself at 80 still there and are you satisfied or regretting things?

The fact that I can't see a way out financially and that we generally get ok and it's not an unhappy home, makes me mostly ok about it on a day to day basis. But I am also deeply unhappy about it too. Obv something will have to change in the coming years and we need to start planning for that.

You see the day to day will just continue then, with the unhappiness niggle continuing in the background... nothing will really change. Have you both sat down to discuss it?

OP, it feels to me like you might be overwhelmed, not just regarding your marriage but your financial position.

I wonder if an honest conversation with your H about where you both are might be the start?

Then urgently addressing the mortgage situation. It's really worrying as I'm not sure where you think you'll get the balance to pay your remaining mortgage. However, I can't understand how you are able to be on an interest-only mortgage on an ongoing basis so I guess there are other details you haven't disclosed here (naturally enough).

I'm biased due to my own situation, but while ending a marriage is often the right thing to do (as it was for me), the fallout in my mind is often ongoing & unresolvable, financially at least. I know it's not always the case but for many it it, including me. It's hard not to be bitter about it.

Hang on!! You know perfectly well I messaged you a perfectly nice message . Don't worry, I've taken screenshots and reported you

I can't understand how you are able to be on an interest-only mortgage on an ongoing basis so I guess there are other details you haven't disclosed here

We have had an interest only mortgage for 22 years, we’ve remortgaged with Barclays several times, recently last year. They only ask what is your way of repaying and don't ask for evidence of that. We’re very fortunate that we’ve been able, in the last few years to pay off large chunks of it and will pay it off in 4 years time. However I wish we’d never had interest only as it’s caused me so much stress and uncertainty, Dh less so as he’s an optimist and always thought our income would increase. (Self employed so not a given!) The problem is you think at the start that you’ll just sell and downsize or move to another area if you can’t pay it off, but that’s really difficult to do when the time comes.

Sorry last post was to @EarringsandLipstick

“So if you are happy to rub along until your kids have left home then tbh that is what I would do. “

but op isn’t happy is she? That’s why she’s here.

is your business scalable op? That’s what I’d be doing! Looking to being financially independent and happy, quick sharp. Living together but apart will kill you slowly but surely.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm harping on - I did read what you said that there's really no chance of reviving the marriage. I guess I'm just trying to understand because I can't work out how this fits with the comment I'm quoting.

I've got lots of broken-up marriages in my extended family - basically my parents, grandparents, all my aunts and uncles, nearly all of them have been divorced at least once each. I've seen my fair share of the dozens of ways a marriage can go wrong: infidelity, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, emotional bullying, neglect of children etc I've seen lots of examples. In nearly every example I've seen there's been one party (ok, usually the man) who has been the dickhead to start with, although after years of discord the other person also becomes vengeful/violent and everyone sucks. I've seen knives brandished, suicide threatened, police called.

I've never seen two people who are fundamentally ok people, communicate well, co-parent well, live together peacefully...and still not stay married.

I totally appreciate that we don't have a full picture because you've only posted a few posts and you don't have to tell us more, of course. But I hope you see what I'm getting at.

Maybe you'd respond (fairly!) that my bar is too low. It isn't in fundamentals. My husband was by my side for 36h through my labour with dd and never took a break. He'd take a bullet for me and I would for him. He's about a good a guy as I can find. But yeah, we have had issues like infidelity (that was me, many years ago) and dry spells of no sex, and silent spells due to depression (that was him, on another occasion). But the way I feel about marriage is like, if he's a fundamentally ok guy, it's always worth trying to give it another go.

Thanks for listening to my Ted talk lol

@LizzieSiddal H is also an optimist and has talked a good talk about massively increased income over the years. I can't disclose exactly what my employment status has been over the last 20, except to say I have always worked (school hrs when kids were little), and sometime after that I became self employed and full time. I cannot earn any more than I do already.

YANBU to suck it up until your DC have finished school. I wouldn't be splitting up and forcing my DC to move school during their finals years either OP and putting them first is entirely reasonable.

But what happens in three years' time? Once your DC have finished school you will have an opportunity to sell your flat and both move somewhere cheaper, so and at that point it will not be reasonable to stay in a dead marriage.

So, if I were you, that's what I'd be putting my energy into planning and preparing for - the next stage once your DC no longer need you to be living where you are.

So you’re going to have to sell this property anyway, to pay off the mortgage? I’d be ripping that plaster off sooner rather than later op.

You haven’t given any precise figures

such as what is your property worth? How much is outstanding on your mortgage? If the bank have allowed interest only then they believed yoh when you said you were going to be able to pay it off

You must both be earning at least 2k?

Does your son have a weekend job? Can he contribute?

@Hillbilly

Mhmmm. Funny that! in reading all your posts the only thing that stood out was info about your DH and finances/ work. Must say your comment here doesn't surprise me and it is exactly as I expected.

Also, I believe the financial mess is really what's destroying your relationship. Sorry if finance cannot be resolved/ improved as it explains why you are certain you want out.

@LizzieSiddal

That's really interesting. I didn't know that.

Yes, I can imagine that line of thinking re moving / downsize. When I bought my first house, I did so planning to move within 5 years, it was a starter home in my eyes. A few years on, recession + related unemployment hit, and a few years later I was a single parent & struggling just to manage the mortgage. I'm relieved to have a home (major housing crisis where I live) but it's far from what I planned for this stage in my life

But it's about what people value, yes?
I have seen many 'ok' marriages break up because say, the wife wanted to go out and do things, the husband just wanted to stay home and be boring.
Or sometimes, I'm not condoning affairs but you never know what you're missing until it appears in front of you.

I agree but if values were mismatched I can't see how a marriage could last long enough to have teenage kids. Or how communication could be so good.

It sounds like OP communicate well and coparent well. That's...a pretty incredible achievement in my experience of marriages in my family and wider friends. Based on those two facts alone, this marriage would make it into the top few percentiles of marriages I have seen...!