Our children owe us nothing

[Shesforeverjumpingonthatsofa]

Who agrees with this?

I truly believe my Dd (5) owes us nothing when she grows up. I hope hope hope she’ll want to visit regularly and spend time with us, because she wants to, and that is all.
Dh’s mum is always complaining, she’s on her own after fil passed some years ago, but she’s never worked, never learnt to drive. She complains that no one comes to do her garden, to take her food shopping, to pay her bills and help her sort them out etc. I remember when Dh was young and first starting working in his first job and they took a huge amount of board from him-a lot. His brother still lives at home with her and pays the majority of everything (agree he should contribute a fair amount living there, but if he moved out she’d be screwed)
I really feel like I brought my Dd into this world, everything I do for her is because she’s my daughter and I love her, she doesn’t owe me anything
Anyone agree?

I think it's cultural. In most places around the world it is very much assumed that kids owe their parents care. I grew up like that but even in most of Europe it's assumed. In fact, even in the UK until recently it was assumed

This topic really brings out the martyrs. Sacrifice everything for DC, never expect anything in return. Financially supporting them as adults, providing childcare, paying their house deposits, then happily boxing themselves away when they're too old to be useful. Never being the slightest inconvenience.
My former neighbour had this attitude. When she was ill and needed shopping, couldn't set up her wifi, her hedge needed cutting, lonely and needed a chat, when she fell at 3am, guess who picked up the slack while the DC got on with own lives?
Its all well and good planning to be an excellent no demand parent, but inevitably most of us will need some support and company in later life. By nobly sparing your children, you're often just passing the burden to someone else.

I agree.
I chose to have my child(ren) they didn't have a say in being born, or the sacrifices needed to raise them.

I hope to sustain a relationship where they want to be part of my life rather than it feeling like a chore.

I hope they will live their lives for them rather than what they think I want for example.

This is all a fair way from my upbringing and I don't have a great relationship with my parents.

Absolutely agree with this.

My parents didn't care well for me, there's no way I'll be caring for them.

Family life is much more complex than who owes who nothing and it's a pretty dismal way of looking at it.
I would never rely on my children to come and do my garden. If I can't do it then it is time to sell. They did not sign up for gardening when they were born.
If I need something doing in the house and it is relatively minor I may ask my son to do it. I will never expect it, but at the same time I would like to think that he appreciates me for everything I still do and would want to help.
Family is about a lot of things. If you can't rub along together then heaven help society in general

@5128gap

I agree with you

I suspect it's actually better for most people to have to get on with things themselves and maintain some independence. Making adjustments to the living environment helps too. Having a large house or garden you can't cope with just creates extra work.

Like the OPs example a lot of people with family help close by won't even try to do things and surely that just ages you prematurely. Able bodied people in their 60s shouldn't be encouraged to act like 90 somethings.

Personally I'd rather have the kind of relationship with my parents and children where we meet for a catch up, a bit of a laugh and some fun together.

There is a huge supposition on here that family members automatically love each other. Actually, some do and some don't. In fact, families are just people connected to us by random biology - it's not possible to force a close link if the individuals just don't like each other!

A bit of a side thing, but I really don't get parents who expect kids to do or be anything, examples

'I am a lawyer so you have to be one'

'I run and accountants firm you have to take it over'

'You need to buy a house no more than 20 mins away'

You have lived your life let them live theirs

I would never rely on my children to come and do my garden. If I can't do it then it is time to sell. They did not sign up for gardening when they were born.
No, but I bet you will hear all about it when they think you are selling 'their inheritance'. So when they kick off and tell you not to sell, make them sign a contract to pay for the gardener.

Well I was raised to think family is very important - friends come and go, but family has your back no matter what. It's not a matter of one person owing another, we all owe each other loyalty.

I tell my eldest son when the younger two get on his nerves "they're annoying little brothers now, but one day they might be the only people in your corner". No matter how much my siblings and I annoyed each other, any other kids being mean to one would get a telling off or a smack off one of the rest of us, and the same attitude is there now.

My parents have been incredibly helpful since I was diagnosed with cancer, doing school runs and childcare around my appointments so that DH can earn money and not be the new employee needing time off in a new job.

You're both settled and married she must have done something right.

Though as my sister who has gone nc with our alcoholic abusive mother always says: anything I’ve done well, I’ve done despite her, not because of her.

I'm with you on this one, but I also think it's niave to think it'll always go that way. I mean, we could say that about any relation fir example a marriage. I'd like to think that if I was living and fair my OH would be too and we'd grow old together and our live would deepen with each year. That doesn't always happen though.
My mum's a widow. My sister makes more effort for things like Xmas. She has a husband and children and a more family friendly home. Mum can stay over. I live alone. I often don't bother with xmas (as in big meal) and I didn't join mum and dad when he was about. They did their own thing. So now I don't feel guilty that mums 'all on her own'.
On a day to day basis I see her more. I call in after work and 'pop' round more whereas sister lives further away and it's a day thing.
I see both my adult children regularly. They live an hours drive away. I drive over in the evening or weekends. I've been on holiday with both. I never 'get fed' at my sons so always eat out. My daughter will happily stretch a family meal if I turn up after work. If j get there first I'll let myself in n might even start dinner
I count myself very lucky. My sons GF is pregnant so lm assuming they will move in together. She has a home and a child already, he's renting. When he lives in her home 2 hrs away things could change!

I think this boils down to 4 categories.

1. You have a close, loving, respectful family and as a result of this parents choose to support adult children and adult children choose to support their elderly parents. It doesn't feel like a chore as done from a position of love. This is probably the ideal norm.

2.You have a close, loving, respectful family and parents do a lot to support their adult children but those adult children choose not to support elderly parents in turn. I think this is the scenario where "selfish" is often banded about.

3.You don't have a close loving family and parents do not support adult children, but adult children choose to support elderly parents out of a sense of duty or moral obligation. This is the scenario where I think the actions of the adult children are admirable, but they probably feel resentful.

4.You don't have close loving family and none of the adults support each other.

Unfortunately I think adult children in scenario 4 are often called selfish or their parents expect them to provide support even though there is no loving relationship. I think this is where it gets very very hard for all parties. And unfortunately onlookers (who probably come from loving families themselves and don't understand that there is a huge spectrum between "loving family" and "abusive") are often likely to decide that the adult children are being selfish.

I'm a scenario 4 person. My parents think they are wonderful and I am selfish. the truth is rather more complex.

Where does your mil live op, does she own her property?
I suppose you won’t be ‘expecting’ any of the inheritance from that either will you?

Adult child parent relationships are based on liking each other. Apparently a lot of people on mumsnet don't like their parents and in laws and should expect the same from their children.

The world is less family focused and more about the individual so every familial act is now scrutinised for personal benefit and totted up for future repayment. I get on well with my parents and in laws and hope I continue to like my son as he grows up.

This. I'm a bit younger but had a much older dad and a mother with what I now know is ADHD so it's all about her. I never had knickers or pyjamas or even clothes until I left home (I had to borrow hers and was frequently disciplined for it) and was expected to do my own laundry and weekly mending of the one pair of jeans I did have from the age of 14. I went to uni but with no help practically and any money she gave me to live on until my grant was sorted was written down in a book. When I was involved in a car accident some years later and received compensation, she made me pay her back every penny she had 'lent' me for college. There are many more stories and I won't bore you 🤣 but the message I got growing up was I was expensive and I should be grateful. Grateful that my dad picked me up from school until I was 10, grateful that I didn't go to bed hungry, grateful grateful bloody grateful.

Now she's ill and struggling and I actually couldn't care less. She keeps guilt tripping me and I'm sick to death of it. I'm her only child and I just feel so resentful that I'm the one dealing with adult social care to sort out her hoarding issues and shit tip of a house. She did nothing to support me when I was young, abdicated all responsibility for my dying father on to me so I was coming home from school to make him lunch and then having to walk back (30.mins each way).so I was always in trouble at school for attendance and punctuality. All this shite about families and loyalty obviously come from people with very different experiences as I feel she owes me!

The sudden requests for help and seeking company etc are very likely the beginnings of some form of dementia. I don’t think parents in their 70s or 80s generally do it for a laugh. This behaviour that can be seen as manipulative can also be the result of declining mental health, attempts to cover up physical or memory problems and hence the lying, fear of trying to phone up or go on line to pay a bill, fear of driving if they have recently had a scare. They may try to hide their decline and it will maybe come accross as entitlement and awkwardness. My grandmother wouldn’t go to the shops anymore and we discovered her eventually hiding - she had onset of senior psychosis and thought there was a stranger waiting outside her front door. This had been going on for weeks and she hadn’t said anything. Please don’t assume your “ relatively young” ( 70s) is not young- parents are just having a bit of fun. Life can become really tough and frightening for elderly people. It suddenly seems very different from being a brave independent 40/50/60 year old. Like being thrown in to a different world. Please be kind if you love your parents and don’t want them to suffer alone.