AIBU to think this is absolutely disgusting and unecessary.

[Gettingbysomehow]

So this happened a few miles away from where I live.
Call me old fashioned but I think this is totally inappropriate and somebody should have called the police.
I have been a naturist for 40 years but the old fashioned kind who doesn't think dangling your genitals in front of families and young children who have gone for a meal is at all appropriate.
I would question why they found the need to do this. There are plenty of naturist clubs in the area.
People go to naturist clubs to get an all over tan and be a member of an organisation that usually has a pool and cheap membership.
My non naturist friends think I'm being stuffy and ridiculous am I?
Diners shocked as naked pair enjoy meal in Burnham-On-Sea pub

There are something like 10 million naturists in the UK (recent Ipsos polling data) so hardly a tiny minority.
Nudity is enormously beneficial and no deleterious effects have been found, despite researchers looking for them. For a popular entertainment example watch C4's Naked Beach, or for a more rigorous approach read Professor Keon West's associated research paper.
Nudity is becoming more common in public places and the only way that that trend can continue is by there being more nudity in public places.

MalcolmBoura do you share these views in real life because it certainly wouldn't go well if you said it to anyone I know. They most definitely aren't prudes either.

You might want to Google his name.

How do you feel about trousers that have sat on bus seats, the ground (dogs toilet), park benches, etc etc. What about knickers? Why do you think nursing and care uniforms are short sleeved and doctors no longer wear ties? ha ha, what's that got to do with the price of chips? As long as they did it hygienically, no problem, although I wouldn't let my dh or ds to to a restaurant wearing shorts and a vest top as I think its poor etiquette.

Thanks.

No point in arguing then.

Your post betrays your preconceptions. How can a harmless activity stop something from being a "safe space". What trauma? Trauma resulting from the prejudice of the beholder is hardly justification for reinforcing that prejudice.

Thanks.

No point in arguing then.

Probably not but I remain extremely suspicious of any movement and anyone who seemingly has so little respect or concern for other people's boundaries and who is actively hellbent on running roughshod over them.

thank you!

My apologies if you think that that was snarky. Please explain how an irrational nudity taboo differs from an irrational hair taboo. Also, please explain about the child confusion. They just accept nudity as natural and unremarkable unless an adult tells them otherwise. Confusion arising from an irrational taboo is the fault of the taboo.

Oh, Lord. It's you.

@MalcolmBoura

Your post betrays your preconceptions. How can a harmless activity stop something from being a "safe space". What trauma? Trauma resulting from the prejudice of the beholder is hardly justification for reinforcing that prejudice.

You're so dismissive of other people's mental wellbeing while expressing the benefits of nudity on other people's wellbeing.

A woman who has in the past been sexually assaulted or raped may, even if they have had counselling and worked through that trauma, feel unsafe and upset in the presence of a naked man whose penis is exposed.

It's a perfectly understandable and logical consequence to the trauma of sexual violence, even if the man with his penis exposed is no threat to her.

Can you at least acknowledge that the man's 'right' to be naked in public spaces may cause distress to some people and that the needs of those people should be considered alongside what you perceive to be his 'right'?

You seem so terribly dismissive and simplistic when it comes to the effect on others / any concerns at all and it's a real shame because it makes it difficult for you to have meaningful conversations with people about this.

But is not about exhibitionism. They just wanted to have a meal dressed in a way that they find comfortable.
The research evidence shows quite conclusively that knowing what other people really look like improves body-image.

I totally agree with you.

Malcom will argue for evermore as he is very passionate about it obviously.

Doesn't mean he's going convert any of us.

I dont want any child to have to look at Neil's or Malcolm's penis.

You are assuming what the people that you know would think about it. The polling data (Ipsos, large 2022 poll), the research evidence, and my conversations, for example u3a members and Scout and Guide leaders, says otherwise. They want what is best for children and myth instead of reality is very, very dangerous.

A child might think a lot of things are natural, that's why we guide them.

The trauma from sexual violence can be very difficult but harming millions of children and adults is not the way to go about reducing it.

Yes, I'm assuming that they don't want Neil's or Malcom's penis out when they take their children out for dinner.

So why are you advocating guiding them away from something that is harmless when that guiding is known to result in harm to them?

@MalcolmBoura

There are something like 10 million naturists in the UK (recent Ipsos polling data) so hardly a tiny minority.

I thought it unlikely that 1 in 7 people in the UK describe themselves as naturists so looked this up and you've misrepresented this impressively!

Rather than asking people if they identify as a naturist, the polling data from British Naturism reflects the below definition. I'm not a naturist but because I have sunbathed topless in my friend's garden while some of her other friends were there, I would be included in the 'naturist' category... as would anyone who has been skinny dipping. Rendering the term as good as meaningless in context.

---

The survey gave respondents a definition of naturists as people who engage in activities such as sunbathing and swimming without clothes in the company of people other than their partner or family – or in a healthcare setting.

Almost 40% of those surveyed by Ipsos said they had engaged in one or more of the four listed activities. Skinny-dipping was particularly popular, with 21% of respondents saying they have swum without a costume.

I don't think it is.

Trauma resulting from the prejudice of the beholder is hardly justification for reinforcing that prejudice

How are you intending to use the word ‘prejudice’ here? Are you trying to imply that anyone who has experienced trauma in a circumstance involving someone’s unwanted exposure and/or use of genitals or secondary sexual organs is somehow being bigoted and you are in some way a victim? Thats such a massive reach I’m shocked you can stand without losing your centre of gravity.

Let me ask you, why do you think societies evolved to clothe and protect their bodies? There are very few climates or environments that lend themselves to having exposed skin for a start, even fewer activities where a completely exposed body is an advantage.

If you’re going to rail against centuries of societal and industrial evolution clothing is an odd one to champion quite so vehemently when there are mountains of evidence against pretty much everything you could try and come up with to justify yourself.

What does exist, and has coexisted satisfactorily for a very long time, are compromises that appear to work for 99.9% of the population. Given that the wearing of clothes does not present any risk it’s odd that you would decide that anyone presenting their issues with it to you are automatically the ones with the problem and therefore dismiss them.

You are assuming that they are victims of the nudity taboo. You would probably be surprised how many of your friends are naturists, it is about 14%, or one in seven, if your friends are similar to the overall national picture. When a naturist gets dressed the disguise in perfect and a lot are terrified to come out because of the prejudice that they may face.

@MalcolmBoura

The trauma from sexual violence can be very difficult but harming millions of children and adults is not the way to go about reducing it.

Not being around an exposed penis in a place it's completely reasonable to not expect to see a penis would be very helpful actually.

How dare you be so dismissive of women's trauma. It's staggering you preach rights of freedom and entirely dismiss the rights of people who don't share your desires.

As I said, the way you converse does absolutely nothing for your cause. Something worth reflecting on from your side.

No it doesn’t. And the harms have been explained to you already.

And to convince me of otherwise I would like you to explain all the society conforming people who continue to wear clothes and are body positive.

I can fully appreciate as parents we have those situations where something out of the ordinary happens and we have to quickly (and often subconsciously) decide how to navigate it with our children. It can be surprising and awkward, and often in hindsight we may adjust that for future circumstances.

It seems important that this couple had sought permission in advance, the staff were aware and therefore calm and dealt with them as they would any other customer. As for the couple themselves, they would also have acted as people do in a bar/pub, and I imagine smiled at anyone they made eye contact with. They were also seated quickly in a corner and proceeded to drink their drinks and order their meal (whilst sitting on towels, of course).

So, all this means that any real sight of nudity would have been fairly brief.

Children take cues from those around them - if staff and the couple themselves were acting as people usually do, then their take away would have also been such ie this is unusual but people seem to be largely comfortable, mildly surprised...