AIBU to think this is absolutely disgusting and unecessary.

[Gettingbysomehow]

So this happened a few miles away from where I live.
Call me old fashioned but I think this is totally inappropriate and somebody should have called the police.
I have been a naturist for 40 years but the old fashioned kind who doesn't think dangling your genitals in front of families and young children who have gone for a meal is at all appropriate.
I would question why they found the need to do this. There are plenty of naturist clubs in the area.
People go to naturist clubs to get an all over tan and be a member of an organisation that usually has a pool and cheap membership.
My non naturist friends think I'm being stuffy and ridiculous am I?
Diners shocked as naked pair enjoy meal in Burnham-On-Sea pub

I imagine spilling a bit of sauce could be painful? I do like a pocket or 2 myself so I can definitely see a downside! I do hope someone flash wiped the seats...

Hmmm. Men on this thread demanding the right to flash their willies at children and unconsenting adults? Seems to fit a pattern .

Loverofoxbowlakes is correct if you read the legislation. Speaking from someone who’s job it was to record crimes, for a crime to be committed the person had to have wanted to be seen AND caused alarm or distress to another. So the burden of proof is on the prosecutor to provide evidence to show there was intention to put someone in a state of alarm or distress for the crime to be made out. You are correct in that it is very difficult to prove as how do we prove someone’s intentions, very few people are going to admit to it. However that is how law works, gathering physical evidence to prove an offence is made out and why many cases never go further than arrest/words of advice because it’s nigh on impossible to prove. It’s also how naturists are allowed to do what they do. Have a Google of the North Yorkshire naked bike ride, it’s been a legal past time for years.

Having said all that, on a personal level I don’t agree with it as a social norm, it causes awkwardness especially with young children who ask a lot of questions, loudly! It’s also really unhygienic, I tell my toddler not to take all their clothes off and then sit on sofas and cushions that other people use, not sure why another adult would be drawn to do this

For anyone who is interested…

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/66

So you’re trying to tell me that unrestricted nudity in public places would solve the problematic side effects of ‘prudishness’?

You’re boiling some very complex issues down to complete mush tbh.

Outraging Public Decency is also a thing.

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/23571740.man-fined-outraging-public-decency-exposing-buttocks/

'Given that someone conducting their business naked in public is acting in a way that does not conform to the normal standards of society that require people to be clothed in public, 'disorderly' would appear to most aptly describe this behaviour.'

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

I don't understand how this is legal. So inappropriate. And gross.

Haven't read the whole thread, it's long. But the thought unfolding in my mind on reading this is how my own personal attitudes to it have changed, mainly spanning the last decade.

I have no hang-ups about nudity whatsoever. I don't view the human body as in any way disgusting or taboo. But there's a normalizing of fetishized behaviour of late in which safeguarding boundaries are being persistently eroded. It doesn't take much of a leap to work out where this will lead.

Drag-queen storytime in libraries aimed at children, furries attending pride marches and protests, males encroaching into spaces where females are vulnerable, AGP, some problematic policies within and surrounding schools (man dressed as schoolgirl hanging around at leaving time and nobody turned a hair or did a thing about it). The issue is the unwilling participation of bystanders in those fetishes (it's others' discomfort that is part of the kick). As for MAPs on Twitter, this is a frightening attempt to legitimize what is usually seen as the most dangerous taboo in our society.

Naturism is inherently unsexual from my understanding, but naturists by and large behave within set boundaries. And like the fetishes outlined above, this act erodes those boundaries. If it's not OK for the naked rambler, why is it permissible for them?

About 7-10 years ago this wouldn't have bothered me unduly. Now, with an added insight made inevitable by the recent assault on women's and children's rights, it does.

Someone asked upthread: do you feel comfortable exposing your genitals to strangers? My answer to that as a naturist (and my DH's answer) would be absolutely yes, in the appropriate setting. ie a naturist beach or venue. Where it is a complete non-issue and we have no care who sees them, whether strangers or friends. Absolutely no in any other setting. These people are not true naturists, they are exhibitionists (at best, and more seriously paraphilic at worst). Totally different thing.

Outraging Public Decency is a step further than Exposure, it includes an act that caused alarm or distress, for example masturbation in a public place. In the case linked the dropping of the trousers and the additional word of kiss my a**e.
Oddly for Exposure you only need one person to have witnessed the offender but for Outraging Public Decency it’s two or more people who could have witnessed it (regardless of whether they actually did) ie sitting in a busy car park in the middle of the day masturbating in a vehicle, even if no one witnessed the act, the possibility of someone having witnessed it was high

^this^

@FlipFlop1987 please excuse the digression but as you’re well versed in this stuff what’s the charge police can use for urinating in public? It just reminded me of my younger days when the consensus in the pub was that you would be arrested for indecent exposure for urinating in public (primarily men it has to be noted).

Your posts caused me to wonder what they would be doing wrong (apart from the obvious hygiene issues!) if they were reasonably sheltered and had no intent to cause any distress.

This makes perfect sense to me. And is in line with sensible safeguarding - that children need to know when nudity is and isn't to be expected otherwise how can they be expected to know when someone is behaving appropriately or not?

As someone said upthread, if they are told that it's perfectly acceptable for a couple to be naked at a pub and that it's not something anyone should feel uncomfortable about etc, it's a lot more complicated for them to understand that if someone with nefarious intentions is naked in front of them and tells them it's ok that in that case it isn't ok.

Erring on the side of caution is crucial to safeguarding.

Can you honestly not see that @MalcolmBoura?

Quite. I mean even if they did this in the US, frankly. Remember all the hoo haa when someone's boob fell out on stage?

Good question, I believe the offence itself isn’t a recordable crime but rather dealt with as a form of fixed penalty notice the same for littering. So not something I am aware of through my role.
Section 5 of the Public Order Act. may cover parts of it as ‘intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress (no person need be present)’ however the officer would be relying on intent again, so if the person was urinating as an act of graffiti to make a political statement such as when it’s done on a war memorial, that would be to provoke a reaction such as harassment, alarm or distress. However most people just need a wee! People doing it beside a motorway for example are genuinely caught short therefore it wasn’t with the intent of causing harassment, alarm or distress.
Taking it further would be to say the act of having a wee in front of public was for sexual gratification and that would then step over towards the Exposure/Outraging Public Decency realm

Almost all child abuse is carried out by people wearing clothes and there is nothing inappropriate about nudity in itself so what exactly are these safeguarding concerns? How about banning hoodies? How about banning black leather? How about banning spider man costumes? The justifications I have heard so far for the nudity taboo are essentially the same as the Taliban uses to justify their women's faces and hair taboo.

How does banning something that had proven health benefits for both participants and bystanders help anyone? If somebody has a phobia then I recommend the NHS web site pages on the subject.
Naturism is for many people a lot more than a lifestyle choice, it is a matter of belief, and that is protected by the Equality Act 2010.

Please do not make assumptions. They sat on towels. How do you feel about trousers that have sat on bus seats, the ground (dogs toilet), park benches, etc etc. What about knickers? Why do you think nursing and care uniforms are short sleeved and doctors no longer wear ties?

@MalcolmBoura

Almost all child abuse is carried out by people wearing clothes and there is nothing inappropriate about nudity in itself so what exactly are these safeguarding concerns? How about banning hoodies? How about banning black leather? How about banning spider man costumes? The justifications I have heard so far for the nudity taboo are essentially the same as the Taliban uses to justify their women's faces and hair taboo.

It's concerning that your response to my post about safeguarding concerns, which was measured, respectful and polite, is so dismissive and snarky.

You aren't doing anything for your cause by speaking to people the way you do. Including comparing concerns about children's potential confusion around nudity with Taliban rule.

The US are worse. At least, they are on the eastern seaboard.

I'd been used to sunbathing topless on Spanish holidays and never thought twice about it. When I attempted to do this entirely innocently in the states, my ex, with whom I lived at the time, warned me I could be arrested for it.

@MalcolmBoura you aren't coming across at all well.

I can't believe you are actually comparing people who think our genitals should be covered up to the Taliban. You sound nuts. I could say other things but it would get removed.

@MalcolmBoura do you share these views in real life because it certainly wouldn't go well if you said it to anyone I know. They most definitely aren't prudes either.

Nudity can be an aggravating factor in some crimes but it is not in itself an offence. He was faced with a choice, plead guilty and get a small fine or fight the case with all the associated stress, run up substantial legal costs, and if found guilty face a substantially larger punishment. I have little doubt that he was guilty under s.5 Public Order Act 1986 and would have received a similar fine if convicted of that but a conviction for Outraging Public Decency would be a lot less certain. It is a common law offence and the definition is scattered across a number of court judgements one of which says something like "outraging is a very strong word and the conduct must go well beyond being merely offensive or insulting". Lord Denning if I recall correctly.

There are no health benefits to bystanders of seeing other people naked when they do not wish to. If someone is unable to control their desire to display their body to unwilling observers, I'm sure the NHS can help with that too.