AIBU to think this is absolutely disgusting and unecessary.

[Gettingbysomehow]

So this happened a few miles away from where I live.
Call me old fashioned but I think this is totally inappropriate and somebody should have called the police.
I have been a naturist for 40 years but the old fashioned kind who doesn't think dangling your genitals in front of families and young children who have gone for a meal is at all appropriate.
I would question why they found the need to do this. There are plenty of naturist clubs in the area.
People go to naturist clubs to get an all over tan and be a member of an organisation that usually has a pool and cheap membership.
My non naturist friends think I'm being stuffy and ridiculous am I?
Diners shocked as naked pair enjoy meal in Burnham-On-Sea pub

@MalcolmBoura

You would probably be surprised how many of your friends are naturists, it is about 14%, or one in seven, if your friends are similar to the overall national picture.

That figure is based on the following definition:

"The survey gave respondents a definition of naturists as people who engage in activities such as sunbathing and swimming without clothes in the company of people other than their partner or family – or in a healthcare setting."

The fact you think one in seven people actually identify as naturists in the established, common definition, shows either a lack of understanding when it comes to data or a wilful misrepresentation.

It's like asking people to describe their sexuality but adding a caveat that if they've ever kissed someone of the opposite sex, they are bisexual so have to tick that box.

It's so disingenuous.

Some people don't have body-image problems, but across it growing in both prevalence and severity.

@MalcolmBoura do you go out in public naked all the time?

Sorry, typos crept in. I will correct that in this post and add a reference.

Some people don't have body-image problems, but the problems are growing in both prevalence and severity. An example is the growth in the demand for plastic surgery. For example https://www.nature.com/articles/s41443-021-00480-1

@MalcolmBoura

Can you explain why you're attributing a 'growing prevalence and severity of body-image issues' to what you describe as the nudity taboo?

Because number of people wearing clothes hasn't increased.

If anything, you say the number of naturists has increased.

So what is your explanation for claiming a link between the 'nudity taboo' and an increase in body image issues?

I don't care if people want to be naked, but do it in appropriate places. I'd argue a restaurant where people eating dinner isn't appropriate. But I'm on the camp that thinks dogs shouldn't be in there either. Just have some respect for others.

That was an interesting exercise.

I’m with you and the arguments are akin to a lot of lifestyle choices that exist without substance. What I really object to is the framing of the issue as one of prejudice (!) when actually it’s more one of choice and consent.

The original couple discussed may have sought agreement with the owners but no one else in the Venue had the chance to be or not be part of this couples nudity.

I also find the refusal to acknowledge that other peoples nudity can be distressing to others very blinkered and selfish. Naturalism isn’t a secret, people can partake easily in environments where everybody consents. Why would you insist that someone who does have an issue with it just ‘shouldn’t’?

I don’t care how that’s dressed up with flimsy statistics about abstract harms that don’t stand up to scrutiny. Telling others what they should and shouldn’t feel is dictorial bs. Arguing on one hand that something is beneficial to people mental health whilst insisting that their views don’t matter is a dirty, gaslighting tactic often used to deflect when someone knows logically they’ve overstated their position.

It's instructive, if slightly depressing, to see all these bullshit arguments trotted out once again in defense of men's rights to display their penises at will.

'beneficial' - to the men who very much want to show their penises and disrupt societal norms
'prejudice' - people who don't want to see surprise penises

We can argue the toss about legalities all day long. It's rather starkly clear to me what is going on, here.

Man will argue at great length for his rights to swing his dick around. (general 'man', not aimed at anyone in particular).

It's not prudish or prejudiced or in any way a bad thing to say 'no, thank you' to surprise penis, and the suggestion that people who don't want to be confronted with strangers' penises are in some way 'phobic' is utterly offensive.

It's instructive, if slightly depressing, to see all these bullshit arguments trotted out once again in defense of men's rights to display their penises at will.

The unrestricted display by ladies of fannies is also being defended.

Interested in Malcolm's thoughts on this.

He has made a correlation between the 'nudity taboo' and increased body image issues, when the taboo of nudity has absolutely not increased.

In fact, he himself (along with British Naturism) claims that the number of naturists has grown in recent years.

So why is the increase in body image issues being attributed to the 'nudity taboo' at all?

I'm not disputing there is some anecdotal evidence of people with poor body image feeling better about themselves when surrounded by people with imperfect bodies supposedly role modelling not caring what they look like.
However the sample of people is far too small and restrictive to extrapolate from this that there are health benefits for clothed people to be forced to witness others' nudity at the whim of the naturist. Some of the clothed patrons may not have had poor body image. Some may have considered their own bodies to be 'worse' than the nude people's. What benefit to them?
The off chance that this pair may have made Nigel feel better about the size of his penis, or shown Jane that she's not the only one with cellulite, doesn't offset the detriment caused to those who were made uncomfortable. And it's not like we need a pair of naturists to walk into the local to show us what a naked body looks like anyway, is it?

@MalcolmBoura what about the paedophiles?

We don't live in a perfect innocent world. Parents teach children things to protect them. Jimmy Saville would have been delighted if we lived in a world where we were naked all the time.

It doesn't matter how much you argue genitals are what we have sex with and it's better if they aren't on display. If I want to see one I will make it known to the other person.

Men don't have to be protected like women and children.

The trauma from sexual violence can be very difficult but harming millions of children and adults is not the way to go about reducing it.

///

So a No Suprise Penis society is more harmful?

That's just barmy

Well said

This just boils down to a man and his feelings being more important than the well being, boundaries and dignity of women and children

Tale as old as time

Surprise Penis was what I meant soz

Doh no I didn't

As you were

I’m just imagining how this could be policed, do judges start bringing in conditions as part of the Sex Offenders Register and Sexual Harm Prevention Orders etc. that known sexual offenders must remain clothed in public at all times. Otherwise what’s to say they aren’t doing it for sexual gratification.

It’s fine to be a nudist and having honest intentions but so many in society don’t and this is just going to become a total minefield for how to determine who is an innocent party and who isn’t. We must put the safety of the vulnerable and victims above anything else

Randomised controlled trials are not anecdotal and all of the quantitative academic research was statistically valid to the point of near certainty.

Are you seriously suggesting that clothing or the lack of it is a worthwhile indication of intentions? Sexual Harm Prevention Orders do sometimes include public nudity provisions.

It is not about a man and his feelings. This is about fact based harm and benefit and facts are crystal clear. Nudity is not harmful but the nudity taboo often is. Try reading up the academic research on the topic.

Can you explain this to me @MalcolmBoura as I'm having trouble understanding how you're correlating one thing with the other.

Your second line contradicts your first! You’re saying there’s no link between nudity and intentions then saying some SHPO’s do have a condition in relation to nudity. So you’ve answered your own question?? Yes there must be because there are lawful restrictions introduced to minimise harm!

Are you genuinely following your own arguments as you seem to have lost your thread

Yep. When people use ad homs and try to shame us it immediately shows up the arguments.

You can call women prudes and repressed all day long, it does nothing to convince anyone of anything other than bad faith and ulterior motives.

I don't care if it makes your penis happy. I care about women's right to not be coerced or forced into being an audience for exhibitionism, and more than that, the need for people to respect each other and give consideration to other peoples feelings.

I remember the reaction of some young children to a nude sculpture. They were very worried about it. Child: "Mummy, why are those men fighting?" Reply "They are Ancient Greek wrestlers and it is a pretend fight." The children were quite happy with that.

Now you're assuming what the children believed.

I can remember being very young working out how babies were made.