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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think this is absolutely disgusting and unecessary.

548 replies

Gettingbysomehow · 07/06/2023 12:50

So this happened a few miles away from where I live.
Call me old fashioned but I think this is totally inappropriate and somebody should have called the police.
I have been a naturist for 40 years but the old fashioned kind who doesn't think dangling your genitals in front of families and young children who have gone for a meal is at all appropriate.
I would question why they found the need to do this. There are plenty of naturist clubs in the area.
People go to naturist clubs to get an all over tan and be a member of an organisation that usually has a pool and cheap membership.
My non naturist friends think I'm being stuffy and ridiculous am I?
Diners shocked as naked pair enjoy meal in Burnham-On-Sea pub

Diners shocked as naked pair enjoy meal in Burnham-On-Sea pub

Diners at a Burnham-On-Sea pub say they were shocked after a naked man and woman walked into the bar and were served a meal.

https://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/diners-shocked-as-naked-pair-enjoy-meal-in-burnham-on-sea-pub/

OP posts:
Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:39

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:24

@Lockheart are you a lawyer? I don't agree with you but you can argue.

What happens if my boss declared we could come naked into the office but I felt uneasy with him being naked? Would I lose my job if I said I didn't want him to?

No, not a lawyer but in a slightly adjacent field and I take a strong interest in the law.

If your boss decreed that people could come to work naked then I'm not sure there'd be any way of stopping him (and it is not totally unheard of for people to go to work naked, as bizarre as it sounds https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1197064/Are-brave-mad-Office-workers-naked-boost-team-spirit.html), but if you found it made your job untenable then I suppose it might be constructive dismissal if you felt you couldn't work there.

Are they brave or mad? Office workers go naked to boost team spirit

A group of office staff have discovered they work better together when they are NAKED.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1197064/Are-brave-mad-Office-workers-naked-boost-team-spirit.html

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:39

Not once have I looked in the mirror naked and thought "Fuck it. People need to see this whilst they are enjoying a day out today. DH, it's Birthday Suit day".

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:42

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:37

Twisting peoples words as well.

They need to cover their bits up. If might not be illegal but going by this thread alone about 99% of the public don't want to see it. I don't know one single person in my life who would do it. Its weird, dirty, selfish, but not illegal.

It literally starts on page 1.

"Indecent exposure"

"Possibly going to a non nudist public place with young children there?
Sounds deliberate to me"

And on it goes in the same vein throughout the thread.

I don't need to twist anyone's words, they're all there in black and white.

Famzonhol · 07/06/2023 23:42

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:35

Indecent exposure was brought up on page 1 of the thread - you can see for yourself.

People commented on page 1 that since one couldn’t prove intent to cause distress it probably wasn’t illegal. But still twattish, unhygienic, fetishistic, exhibitionist and possibly SHOULD be illegal.

You however keep popping up to tell us it’s not illegal.

Ardiaei · 07/06/2023 23:43

Oh I see. A rather ignoble theory/ thought but I suppose it’s possible 😬

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:43

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:39

No, not a lawyer but in a slightly adjacent field and I take a strong interest in the law.

If your boss decreed that people could come to work naked then I'm not sure there'd be any way of stopping him (and it is not totally unheard of for people to go to work naked, as bizarre as it sounds https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1197064/Are-brave-mad-Office-workers-naked-boost-team-spirit.html), but if you found it made your job untenable then I suppose it might be constructive dismissal if you felt you couldn't work there.

As there is nothing in my contract about this I think you may be right.

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:44

Famzonhol · 07/06/2023 23:42

People commented on page 1 that since one couldn’t prove intent to cause distress it probably wasn’t illegal. But still twattish, unhygienic, fetishistic, exhibitionist and possibly SHOULD be illegal.

You however keep popping up to tell us it’s not illegal.

If it bores you that much, then why do you continue the conversation?

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:46

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/06/2023 23:27

A child can't consent to having an adult expose their genitals to them. An adult deliberately exposing their genitals when children are present in a place where our social convention is that people cover up their genitals is deliberately committing indecent exposure. Adults who behave like this are a risk to children's safety and should be prosecuted.

That is not the definition of indecent exposure, which if you'd read the thread you would be aware of by now.

And as I have explained, consent is not relevant here. People are legally allowed to be naked in public (regardless of whether or not we agree with that). They do not need to get the consent of everyone in the vicinity to do so.

Famzonhol · 07/06/2023 23:47

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:44

If it bores you that much, then why do you continue the conversation?

Because like many posters I don’t like to see boundaries being pushed around children, and if anyone complains, the behaviour being justified by people who say “But it’s not illegal”.

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:48

@Lockheart if a naked person walked in my local pub and manager said "No, you have to wear pants in here". Would manager be legally OK to do this without being sued?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/06/2023 23:50

I wouldn't know about the motivation of the individuals in this case. But as a general point, if you deliberately breach the social contract (where we accept that nudity is reserved for specific reserved places) and inflict your naked genitalia on unconsenting members of the public, including children, then it is reasonable to consider why and whether it's an illegal act, including that of flashing
I see no difference between a creep sending dick pics, a police officer exposing himself to women working in McDonalds or adults exposing their genitalia to families in a pub.
All unacceptable and all criminal activities which the police should investigate.

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:50

Gtsr443 · 07/06/2023 23:31

@Lockheart

So when does nudity in public become a public order offence then?

If she is menstruating and just allowing blood to run down her leg is that ok?
If a naked person bends over and their bum cheeks spread so you can see their arsehole is that ok?
If she flings a leg up on the table so her minge is on full display is that ok?

There is no specific mention of those particular acts, but full CPS guidance is here:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

It could potentially be outraging public decency, but bear in mind the final line:

At common law it is an offence to do in public any act of a lewd, obscene or disgusting nature which outrages public decency. If conduct falls within the scope of a statutory offence, such as exposure contrary to section 66 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (see above) it is better practice to charge that offence unless, exceptionally, the offence merits a higher penalty than that available in relation to the statutory offence. Outraging public decency is triable either way and there is no maximum penalty.
The requirement for the behaviour to 'outrage' public decency was said by Lord Simon in Knuller (Publishing, Printing and promotions) Ltd v DPP to: "go considerably beyond the susceptibilities of, or even shocking, reasonable people".
The circumstances surrounding the conduct will need to be carefully considered. Section 66 SOA is available and normally to be preferred where it is done with the intention to cause alarm and distress.
Nudity in public alone with no aggravating features is very unlikely to amount to this (or any other) offence.

Nudity in Public - Guidance on handling cases of Naturism | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:54

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:48

@Lockheart if a naked person walked in my local pub and manager said "No, you have to wear pants in here". Would manager be legally OK to do this without being sued?

Of course they would. Pubs / shops / banks / airlines / whatever can set their own dress standards and refuse to serve or admit people accordingly (assuming no discrimination).

Lots of clubs for example have a no trainers or no jeans rule. No shirt, no shoes, no service is a common one too. There have been some incidences in the news about airlines asking passengers to cover up.

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:55

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:54

Of course they would. Pubs / shops / banks / airlines / whatever can set their own dress standards and refuse to serve or admit people accordingly (assuming no discrimination).

Lots of clubs for example have a no trainers or no jeans rule. No shirt, no shoes, no service is a common one too. There have been some incidences in the news about airlines asking passengers to cover up.

That's good to know.

Lockheart · 07/06/2023 23:56

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/06/2023 23:50

I wouldn't know about the motivation of the individuals in this case. But as a general point, if you deliberately breach the social contract (where we accept that nudity is reserved for specific reserved places) and inflict your naked genitalia on unconsenting members of the public, including children, then it is reasonable to consider why and whether it's an illegal act, including that of flashing
I see no difference between a creep sending dick pics, a police officer exposing himself to women working in McDonalds or adults exposing their genitalia to families in a pub.
All unacceptable and all criminal activities which the police should investigate.

You're incorrect though - nudity in public is not illegal or a criminal offence in and of itself.

VWHoliday · 07/06/2023 23:57

I'm rewriting the contracts at work so I'll also add in that pants need to worn at all times.

Loopyloo159 · 07/06/2023 23:59

HNRTFT but I definitely don’t want to be subjected to the human body naked unless I am at work …there is a reason why clothes were invented!!

Startwithamimosa · 08/06/2023 00:00

Interested that so many think this is ok, yet a transgender in their own cubicle in a women's toilet block is a seen as worthy of a crime. MN is a very odd place!

AmateurDad · 08/06/2023 00:01

Why is it disgusting?

LuluBlakey1 · 08/06/2023 00:09

Do what you like in your own house/garden/in the countryside but don't inflict your naked body on other people in close proximity. Do they take clean towels to sit on - it's totally unhygienic if not.

GettingStuffed · 08/06/2023 00:25

I've been in that pub with my grandson, he's 6. I can only imagine the giggles when he looked at the man's penis.

oviraptor21 · 08/06/2023 07:21

Yep - it's a public decency offence rather than a sexual offence.
Unfortunately the CPS in its infinite wisdom seem to think it's better to prosecute under the SOA where applicable. Personally I think they need to tighten up their guidelines re the POA.

If I'd been in that pub I would have walked out without paying and let the landlord make a claim against me.

AnImaginaryCat · 08/06/2023 07:22

Not sure where I stand on this as I can't pretend I wouldn't be a bit taken aback if I was in a restaurant and a naked couple walked in.

I think whether I'd be outraged would depend on their behaviour.

I was on a train once with my children and a drunk man stripped and stood astride the corridor one foot on either seat and swung his penis to and fro shouting "way hay" giving it a frequent hold to whirlwind it. I must admit I wasn't okay with that and tried to shield my children from him. (As did other adults around me as mine were there only children on that carriage. )

A naked person arriving into a restaurant, ordering food and then sitting down to eat. I certainly notice them but I think I'd waver between immature amusement and being impressed with their confidence. It sounds like I wouldn't need to shield my children from them as they weren't actively drawing attention to themselves.

Busybutbored · 08/06/2023 07:36

AmateurDad · 08/06/2023 00:01

Why is it disgusting?

Well if they were super sexy people it might not be so bad, but they rarely are ime 🤷‍♀️

NoPicklesplease · 08/06/2023 08:30

SlashBeef · 07/06/2023 12:53

I honestly feel there's some sort of fetish aspect when people inflict that on unwilling members of the public.

You always think the worst tbh.

Makes me wonder who hurt you considering your batshit views 99% of the time