To think DH’s idea of pooled family finances is too extreme

[Namechange20222022]

DH hates the idea of separate finances, not only within the household but also with his parents. They live on another continent but their money is ours and ours theirs, there is no distinction on who pays for large purchases/flights to visit each other and any other expenses while travelling etc, meals out, holidays etc. I’ve gotten used to this over the years.

However we now have DC who, via my side of the family, have been exposed to the idea of having their own money. DH hates the idea of ‘my money’, even inter-generational. And strongly believes as an extended family everything should be shared and it’s all collectively ‘our’ money (richer or poorer..).
He wants DC (7 and 5) to be taught the same principles but I think this may be difficult.
By contrast my parents have separate finances, bank accounts, I grew up with my own pocket money etc.

DH doesn’t mind DC being given cash (though he’d prefer not at this age) but he doesn’t want them to think it’s theirs alone and they should be happy to share it with the family.

So you and DH have individual accounts as well as a joint account the ils have access to.
But your DH doesn't want the kids to have their own accounts.

I suspect tax laws in different countries might have something to weigh in on this set up.

Op has already clarified that in-laws names are not on her property or bank accounts. Tax laws will not be affected.

As it seems to be an aspect of growing up with a mixed cultural heritage maybe it would be sensible for the the DC to learn about both approaches to finances (as is already happening) with no judgement on either side and make a decision when they are old enough, as you did when you decided to get married.

OP I know this isn’t an AMA so forgive me if this is intrusive, but I’m just wondering about a couple of things - firstly about your ILs using your bank cards while they are here, I assume that means you/DH divulge your PIN to them? There have been countless stories of people who have had money stolen from their accounts and the banks holding the victim of the crime responsible because it comes to light that they shared their PIN with another person, even if that act has nothing to do with the theft. So by sharing PINs with family members you leave yourself vulnerable in the case of theft or fraud

Secondly, given your own parents are not involved in this arrangement, how would it be viewed if you wanted to use a sizeable amount of your own earnings to support them in some way? I can quite understand couples discussing this kind of plan between themselves, how does this impact our household, DC etc. but getting ILs involved seems like a lot. In your DH’s culture are the wife’s parents usually involved in the money sharing arrangement? I’d hate to think I wouldn’t be able to offer support to my parents if needed because it was ringfenced for ILs’ flights or home improvements

Before you said India @Namechange20222022 I knew that was going to be the culture.

My kids have a friend where they share everything, even toys and tooth fairy money 😱

I guess if it works for them fine, but i am teaching mine about money - and saving for what they want - how can they learn it when all is shared?

I have lots of friends who are of Indian origin and several who are not but who have married partners of Indian origin.
This doesn't sound particularly unusual to me, compared to their experiences. I disagree with those who say it's controlling although of course, like many systems, it has the potential for abuse.
My friends are in their 40s mostly and have gained hugely from this system - buying a house they could not have afforded and being funded through uni (though not always having a choice about what they studied. Almost all of them are doctors) at huge expense by parents and wider family members.
They do not think that it is unusual or unfair that there's a quid pro quo here and that they now have to pay back - often in allowing a parent to live with them and pay living costs for them.
They have mostly come from a culture where pensions were limited and there was an understanding that parents help children and then children help their parents in return.
However, where it's a bit more of a problem is that this tends to be the first generation that's truly managed this well in terms of their children going to international universities and having relatively high incomes by living abroad (although also high expenses as a result). So they are now the first generation to truly experience being the squeezed middle where they will be funding their own children through uni and still funding parents who are inevitably living longer than used to be the case.
Most of my friends are happy with the status quo (one is unhappy that she is basically supporting a sibling of her husband who doesn't seem to be able to manage life as comfortably - thought they'd be married etc by now but no, still living in their basement) but none of them think it will survive another generation.
Their children don't want to live at home with their parents when they leave uni and get partners. They want their independence because they are living in a British society where that's normal. Most of my friends would be happy - even like - to see their system carrying on and would be happy to have another multi generational house when they are older - but they are realistic enough to know that that's not going to happen.
Your children are still young but you probably need to have a chat about the future and what is likely to happen so your husband can get used to the idea of things changing for the next generation. Has he / you got friends where you can start to chat these things through? Some of my friends who are married to people from their own culture (I appreciate this is not your position) have appreciated chatting to my young adult children for example - and gaining an understanding of how they feel, not that they hate us and can't wait to leave us (!) but that independence and self determination is exciting and what they want from life...

Who supports your parents? And what would happen if you said you wanted to keep back thousands for savings? Could you make those decisions about your own money without your in laws being involved?

My parents support themselves. They own their own home. they are both still working full time, they have savings and their expenses are very low. they will get state pension topped up with a small private pension.
We would help if needed though (and i think they would help us).

But my parents will ask for £10 back if we ask them to post something to us (its just different with my parents!).
It used to be tricky when we go out for meals as a family and my parents wanted to pay their 'share of the bill', while DH just wanted to pay the bill with one card! we now compromise by taking turns but my parents monitor this very closely, while we forget whose turn it is to pay.

On savings, do you mean just put the money in an account in my name - I suppose I could, if we didn't need to use the money on something else. they savings we have do actually happen to be in an account in my name (but it wasn't a conscious decision to do that).

Virtually impossible.

So if you wanted to buy something but his parents got in first, you wouldn't be able to?

How do you live like that? How do you keep track?

Are you actually happy with this setup as it's clearly not how you grew up?

And is it actually usual? Never seen it mentioned on here before

I grew up in a UK culture where something like this is not uncommon. Everyone had separate bank accounts, but pulled together financially as a family. Probably because everyone was so skint that it was the only way to survive! Grew up in a multigenerational home, as did my parents and grandparents, but again because it made things more affordable. Very rural, working class background, maybe that’s the difference compared to posters who see this as totally strange? Tbh I would love to have a multigenerational home when my DD is grown up, but at the moment she says no way!

And is it actually usual? Never seen it mentioned on here before?

Because MN is quite white. And any mention of a different way of doing things is greeted with absolute panic and shouts of "LTB". Though I have to say OP sounds a saint, and her DH now needs to meet her halfway.

This is usual not just in India, but also many African countries and in SE Asia, China and possibly others? Basically any country that is not lucky enough to be a welfare state. However, I agree with the poster above that this system only works with first gen immigrants ( me) and not so much in later generations. I don't expect my DC to look after or live with me. Though I would definitely be hurt if they asked me to pay for groceries when I visited them as adults.

my problem is that it’s about certain mentality. It’s good if you are ok with your parents staying with you 6 months but I wouldn’t be.
Also at the moment there is no significant conflict of interests between parties mainly because BIL doesn’t have his own DC but it will be down the line.

I assume that means you/DH divulge your PIN to them? So by sharing PINs with family members you leave yourself vulnerable in the case of theft or fraud

Yes, that's a risk we take, but the accounts with shared debit cards have a relatively small amount in - so hopefully its only we are only risking the amount in the account from any pin number theft.

Secondly, given your own parents are not involved in this arrangement, how would it be viewed if you wanted to use a sizeable amount of your own earnings to support them in some way? I can quite understand couples discussing this kind of plan between themselves, how does this impact our household, DC etc. but getting ILs involved seems like a lot. In your DH’s culture are the wife’s parents usually involved in the money sharing arrangement?

No, they wouldn't usually be involved, especially if the wife had a male sibling who could share finances with them. I think if we needed to support my parents I would discuss this with my own siblings (DS and DB), and the financial support would be split 3 ways, with us providing a third of the support. I'm pretty sure my siblings would be happy to support our parents and i know my DH and in-laws would be happy to support too. Possibly DB may provide more support as he earns more and is generous, but the starting point would be an equal contribution from the three of us.

I couldn’t cope with that BUT there must be some form of compromise. DH and I had different views on how to manage money before we moved in together and got married but now we have a mix of the two.

No, they wouldn't usually be involved, especially if the wife had a male sibling who could share finances with them. I think if we needed to support my parents I would discuss this with my own siblings (DS and DB), and the financial support would be split 3 ways, with us providing a third of the support. I'm pretty sure my siblings would be happy to support our parents and i know my DH and in-laws would be happy to support too. Possibly DB may provide more support as he earns more and is generous, but the starting point would be an equal contribution from the three of us.

My in-laws live with my sister-in-law who supports them-their needs are frugal- though they pay for their own medical care. My granny lived with her several daughters, turn by turn. So women are doing the supporting too, these days, in some families.

I plan to eventually live with my mother and DH is okay with it, because she is lovely.

This is a completely different scenario from OP. You are talking about hospitality, which , it may surprise you to know, the British do as well.

OP is talking about a family economy in which everything is shared ( I wonder who operates the bank accounts, though). Family Trusts in the UK share some similarities with this, although, members still have their own private finances and income.

some families cannot afford to subsidise their adult children, especially if the children are working .

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen the thread has moved on from my comment last night, as I clarified, and OP has also clarified about her bank accounts.

YANBU. Your DH’s views are bizarre. Is he from a different country/culture?

Helping parents or parents helping grown children is fine if it is desired and/or affordable, but pooling money or taking your DC’s money off them is nuts. Do you have savings? I’d be wary with your DH’s attitude that he spends constantly and there’s nothing left for a rainy day or your old age.

Do you have your own pension? In your shoes I’d set up a secret savings account that you save in to. It’s not ideal but no way I’d want my money or my children’s going all over the place, cross subsidising across the generations; it’s just bizarre.

But I still find it interesting that you seem determined to believe that ‘British’ ie ‘white’ (;’Mumsnet is quite white’ I believe you observed) are somehow in general unkind, inhospitable and just rather unfeeling towards their relatives (probably their friends) as well.

I just think it is an interesting example of conscious alienation from the ‘culture’ in which you find yourself living.

fWIW my parents gave me the deposit for my first flat, just as my GM had given my DM. I lent them virtually all my savings so they could buy a house nearer me, without having to wait to sell their own house. Is this ‘typical’ ? Maybe, maybe not. Generalisations are dangerous, imho.

I haven't used those words but ok, if you want to think I am alienated, that's fine. It's perhaps a reaction to the shrieks of "insane" and "bizarre"that dominate the thread. Unkind is not a word I use or have used, because it differs from culture to culture.

In any case, we are both agreed that OP should change this situation for her own children. And that's my last word!

This entanglement of funds between generations is an absolute pig's ear to unpick if it ever went to court. It does not work for divorce, tax, inheritance tax, bankruptcy and any means tested benefits. The UK legal system is not set up to deal with multi-generational, multi-jurisdictional 'pooling' of funds.

What if you divorced and wanted to go after joint matrimonial assets? How do you know what is yours and what is dh's or his family's. A wife can try to go after the whole lot and would involve expensive lawyers for the husband's side to trace and unpick. If one of you were to need to go into a UK care home, what assets is considered yours for the purposes of paying? As for money sloshing around over continents, are you sure the right income tax treatment on remittances is being observed?

It works until there is a falling out. And we know families do fall out, often spectacularly. Husbands and wives divorce. Siblings quarrel over finances. By the second or third generation, I imagine it might not be so peachy.

So you as a couple can't decide to have a holiday without your extended family or to replace a piece of furniture in your own home? Does it have to be broken or worn out? Who decides on pain colours etc? Sounds like basically you have pocket money to cover basic expenses that's all.....if this was a small family in the UK and one partner had this control over the money it would be classed as coercive control by controlling all finances. What happens if you want to leave basically you have no access to the money you put into the pot?

So father in law had the financial freedom to make bad financial decisions ( no upper family stopping him) but now has no money but has control over your personal income?

Given what Op has later said I actually think its only one bank account they share - other funds are kept separate.

I actually think rather than giving ILs access to the Op and DHs cards they should set ILs a separate joint account up in their own names and put an allowance into it.

Kids money should be kept separate

I think the issue is the difference between generations in terms of outgoings. My parents were always like-- why don't you just buy a house you're working. But they bought their 4 bed 2 reception 2 bathroom plus garage and spacious gardens for less than I bought my 2 bed terrace back in the day. Inflation hasn't raised that much. So certain things like buying a home, a car and general living costs will be higher and more difficult for your children than it was for you and for their grandparents. I think that's your starting point.

So what happens if someone in the family just isn't good with money and just keeps spending it or has a gambling problem?

How could you ever buy a present for someone without everyone knowing that you spent £40 on DH, but only £15 on granny even though the present looks more expensive?

What happens if someone divorces?