Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

1000 replies

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 12:33

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Achwheesht · 06/06/2023 22:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Toddlerteaplease · 06/06/2023 22:39

I thought Mumsnet mainly hated Christianity, especially the RC church.

Justanotherlurker · 06/06/2023 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 22:44

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

No i didnt, i converted 3 years before he and I even met

as Muslim men can marry Jewish and Christian women there’d have been no need to convert. I’m not actually incredibly zealous but I do think moderate Muslims (which I’d include myself in) do need to fight to get our version (which we’d of course argue is the real one) seen by both sides (and I mean the conservative mainstream)

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 06/06/2023 22:47

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 22:23

You’re asking for my personal opinion?

if so then, love is love right. No one should be abused because of who they love. I fully supported (and continue to do so) gay marriage. I know there are those who oppose it in the muslim community, im not one of them

Then you are not a true muslim..

Twilightimmortal · 06/06/2023 22:50

Of course, when I asked for dress advice I was told to go and ask my sisters in Islam. As if I shouldn't be on here.

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 22:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Definitely not trying to promote blasphemy laws

I’m not a recent convert nor am I seeking oppression.

but that’s not all sex Ed being stopped in Birmingham is it? It was a handful, not that it makes it ok but it’s not all.

there is a serious anti Jewish sentiment problem within the Muslim community im not denying that and there are many problematic traditions to confront.

but how some Muslim men perceive non Muslim women as fair game and not counting? Is that a quranic thing ? Or a twisted and sick thing that some misogynistic males might think? I’d argue the latter

OP posts:
Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 22:53

Twilightimmortal · 06/06/2023 22:50

Of course, when I asked for dress advice I was told to go and ask my sisters in Islam. As if I shouldn't be on here.

But that’s not anti Muslim sentiment is it 🥴

OP posts:
Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 22:54

Justanotherlurker · 06/06/2023 22:47

Then you are not a true muslim..

Are you Muslim? Did you just make takfir on me?

OP posts:
Warda124 · 06/06/2023 23:00

Part of me wants to read this thread but part of me doesn't. I started wearing the hijab age 23 and the backlash I got from society was heartbreaking. I love the UK, it's my home, it's all I know.

I'm sick of people asking me if I REALLY want to wear the hijab. Or whether my husband loves me or whether my dad knows xyz about my personal life. I have the best relationship with my spouse and family and like any normal family we all have a good laugh. If anyone from Manchester has any misconceptions please DM me, come to my house, see how muslims live.

ShodanLives · 06/06/2023 23:01

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 18:21

Well it wouldn’t be Just non Muslim males; it would be all males don’t stand a chance.

so islamically men are seen as the head of the household and a Muslim man can marry a Jew or Christian. A Muslim woman cannot, some have interepreted it as the dominant one can marry a Christian or jew but this is a minority view. Dating in Islam is prohibited but it obviously happens, here and in Muslim majority countries. What is permissible is getting to know someone over a period of time for the purposes of marriage, so I guess halal dating.

my personal opinion is that if a person is an ardent (not necessarily conservative but truly believes their religion is the right one)Muslim, Christian or Jew or any other religion, then a mixed marriage won’t work. So if a non Muslim asked me out (prior to marriage ) I’d decline because it just wouldn’t be going anywhere

How can you say that Islam isn't misogynistic and then say the husband is the head of the household?

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:08

Interestingly Due Lipa the singer is Muslim by background but it is debatable whether she is a practising Mulsim but processes some faith of some description. I guess that means she is an example of modern Islamic women?

I think this is an example where in a secular society people can throw off shackles of their religous background to become a success in their own right.

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:13

No sex before marriage means more about protecting the chastity of women rather than limiting a man's sexual activity. I think it is unrealistic to think about conservative chaste dating in a pluralistic modern society as such attitudes are in the minority and have had their time historically in the UK. Does it worry Muslims that their daughters may end up dating non Muslims (and still to some.degree carry on their faith or some.cultural value)

UCknowitall · 06/06/2023 23:15

I am completely on the fence with this.

I am a Christian (Quaker) and would like to know why YOU (OP) have decided to cover your head and dress 'modestly' ? What questions did you ask yourself before deciding this was for you.

Justanotherlurker · 06/06/2023 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:20

@Warda124

I am glad you have a good life.

why do you feel the hijab sparked a backlash? I suppose many of us do love our country and it is our home so what makes you feel it isn't?

I am from the UK and I guess there are some things I do love about the country including tolerance and diversity. What particular points about the country do you love?

Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 23:22

UCknowitall · 06/06/2023 23:15

I am completely on the fence with this.

I am a Christian (Quaker) and would like to know why YOU (OP) have decided to cover your head and dress 'modestly' ? What questions did you ask yourself before deciding this was for you.

Just on the ‘ modest’ dress?

my process like many was incremental, I’d dress more ‘Muslim’ in more Muslim areas, but around my family or friends at the time, I wouldn’t, what I did though was get progressively more ‘modest’ became Muslim and then continued.

i actually got to a point of where I felt like i was leading a double life and it felt insincere or hypocritical. I was getting the benefits of appearing Muslim when it suited me and the benefits of not being Muslim when it suited me- that wasn’t my thought process in wearing the scarf part time but I realised that was what I was actually doing.

OP posts:
Lesschubtolove · 06/06/2023 23:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don’t think it’s become an embarrassment for me, the opposite actually. A pile on actually.

but I can’t speak for the whole Muslim community, or that Muslim community who have withdrawn or kicked up a fuss about sex Ed. I think it’s a grave mistake, children need to be taught about different types of relationships, same sex, realistic sex v porn, consent etc. And dodging the issue by pulling your kids out of sex Ed, doesn’t make sex go away, it means your kids learn about it from seeing porn on the playground.

i missed the part on the teacher, it quite frankly is ridiculous and another instance of Muslims not doing themselves any favours in becoming hysterical over nothing especially when the religion teaches you to IGNORE it and move on.

i discuss with my iman? Or imam? I’ll admit I’ve never done the latter. What do you expect he’ll say?

i am a white person so have white privilege of course.

OP posts:
Warda124 · 06/06/2023 23:31

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:20

@Warda124

I am glad you have a good life.

why do you feel the hijab sparked a backlash? I suppose many of us do love our country and it is our home so what makes you feel it isn't?

I am from the UK and I guess there are some things I do love about the country including tolerance and diversity. What particular points about the country do you love?

It was the first time I experienced real racism. The first day I wore a hijab, the bus driver told me I couldn't bring my coffee on. I know it sounds so minor but at the time I felt it. I had been taking this bus for 3 years and always took my coffee on. The bus driver didn't recognise me. People didn't sit next to me on the bus anymore. Nobody asked me for directions anymore. People assumed I didn't speak English. Then ofcourse there was the overt racism like being called horrible things and having cars speed up to you when crossing ect

Just going off your question I do feel like the UK is my country? ... It's when people ask me whether I think it is that makes me feel strange. Like ofcourse it is? Where else is my home? Why are you asking me what I love about the UK? (Not you personally) ... But when someone asks me this I just think, as fellow Brit, isn't it obvious?

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:41

@Warda124

do you feel there is difference between racism and devious discrimination? You mention racism (which is awful) but the trigger seems to be the introduction of the hijab which a religous symbol ultimately?

I think it's a nuanced question what you like about your country. I personally don't like some.elements of it (I am quite political economically) but as you say it is all I know.

Sorry for your experience by the way

Achwheesht · 06/06/2023 23:51

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

user1477391263 · 06/06/2023 23:58

No. I think non-Muslim nervousness about Islam (both Muslim individuals and the Islamic world in general) has fallen dramatically in the last 10 years.

It was a big salient thing on the news and in popular discussions etc. 10 years ago. But that was then. There is far less interest now.

Concern about China and Russia has taken over, for one thing. In the UK, there are a lot of everyday domestic concerns about other things, like the NHS and COL, which have pushed other concerns from people’s minds.

Another thing is that the demographics and religiosity of the Islamic world and Muslims in general seem to have shifted.

Previously there was a lot of twitchiness about “Muslims taking over” (not just in the UK but in lots of non western countries, such as India); increasingly, though, Muslims and non muslims have similar numbers of children in most countries.

Terrorism as an ongoing concerns has been trickling off the radar and a lot of mostly-Islamic countries have been becoming a bit saner and more stable (*), partly perhaps due to demographics again; the population pyramids in these places have been shifting and there are a lot fewer angry young men under 30 than there were 10 years ago.

A lot of the Middle East has even, tentatively, been “making nice” with Israel; never thought I’d see the day.

And Muslims, just like non-Muslims, seem to be becoming less religious and more secular across much of the world. Turns out that Muslims aren’t really an exception to modern trends of secularization and smaller families.

https://www.dw.com/en/middle-east-are-people-losing-their-religion/a-56442163

All this has impacted discussion about Muslims living in the UK as well, IMO, and made the issue much less salient, which is not the same as saying that it has vanished altogether, of course.

(*) Not everywhere. Pakistan continues to be a huge problem, as do some other countries, and these are real worries.

Iranian woman with religious veil

Middle East: Are people losing their religion? – DW – 02/04/2021

Recent surveys indicate strongly that across the Middle East and Iran, almost half the population is loosening their ties to Islam. Governments have reacted differently to calls for reforms of institutional religion.

https://www.dw.com/en/middle-east-are-people-losing-their-religion/a-56442163

Warda124 · 06/06/2023 23:58

mids2019 · 06/06/2023 23:41

@Warda124

do you feel there is difference between racism and devious discrimination? You mention racism (which is awful) but the trigger seems to be the introduction of the hijab which a religous symbol ultimately?

I think it's a nuanced question what you like about your country. I personally don't like some.elements of it (I am quite political economically) but as you say it is all I know.

Sorry for your experience by the way

I put it all down to racism. It's all the same really. It's just being the "other" isn't it.

Don't get me wrong, most people are respectful, open-minded and treat me like a human. Most of my friends and housemates were not Muslims but we all loved each other. It's just hard when every 6th person you meet makes you feel like a "foreigner" it does get overbearing.

I also don't think the hijab was the trigger. I just think I became more aware of the new heightened level of racism as the change was so sudden. I'm now used to this level of racism so I don't notice it as much as I did at the beginning.

mids2019 · 07/06/2023 00:03

It is a British value to tolerate and accept all faiths and none. Also it is a value not to impose a religion..

The second point is subtle as the imposition of faith is practised in some states (not ours) and we need to have a society that negates faith imposition and could include by a family or peer group. I think an issue arises when we have a clash between the right of liberty and the right to practice religion. If a religion restricts liberty what then is the prioritised right?

In a free country you have the right to marry anyone so can any religion restricts marriage between faiths? Is the hijab a symbol of devotion freely worn or a.restriction of female.liberty imposed by a patriarchal religion?

Achwheesht · 07/06/2023 00:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.