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Original poster

We need to start talking about population decline

792 replies

user4567890754 · 02/06/2023 22:15

The first signs of it are starting to show in the UK, with primary school closures. Secondary school closures will follow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11158f12-0133-11ee-a364-04e704863f75?shareToken=5ef47b2b4776be376153089146c8bacf

Italy is a few years ahead of us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/plunging-birthrate-threatens-italian-schools

Japan shows where every country is headed - towards a crisis where they are on the brink of being unable to maintain social functions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/13/asia/japan-population-decline-record-drop-intl-hnk/index.html

And yet there are still people who think that we have a problem with overpopulation. It’s the opposite.

The school with one pupil: how falling birthrates are killing village primaries

Four generations of Ruby Booker’s family have been educated at Skelton Newby Hall, an idyllic village primary school in North Yorkshire.It was the autumn of 194

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11158f12-0133-11ee-a364-04e704863f75?shareToken=5ef47b2b4776be376153089146c8bacf

OP posts:
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13
GCalltheway · 04/06/2023 14:49

kitsuneghost · 04/06/2023 14:33

Exactly. That's the problem.

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And who can bloody blame them???

Why the hell would you ravage your own body and prospects for a baby that you will hardly see, be discriminated against for having for the audacity to have children - her career and prospects will suffer as she straddles both and the eye watering cost of childcare is likely to ruin their finances.

It makes me wonder why anyone would consider having dc at all.

whumpthereitis · 04/06/2023 14:49

RosaGallica · 04/06/2023 08:54

The U.K. needs to build wealth within its own country. ‘Attracting foreign wealth’ has caused corruption and the impoverishment of its own people.

The UK would need to keep its wealthy then, which it isn’t doing. An isolationist mindset is all well and good (well, not really), but we live in a global interconnected world. Growing wealth means attracting wealth and investment, not chasing it off.

Tullaly2018 · 04/06/2023 14:51

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 14:51

@Tullaly2018 exactly.

It would be a much better system if wages were higher & inheritance wasn't so important in order to get on the ladder. We had help to buy but if my in-laws property (they downsized) hadn't become so expensive our property wouldn't have been so the inheritance wouldn't have been needed. And then when we sold our flat a parent bought it for their dc. There is so much property wealth in London, I know people who have had 500k plus gifts/inheritance to help them.

Perhaps I'm a dreamer but I think a fairer more equal society is better & safer for my dc.

whumpthereitis · 04/06/2023 14:55

RosaGallica · 04/06/2023 08:57

Don’t underestimate the amount of wealth held by the richest either. I was sent an obscene wealth calculator the other day, a nice little game showing what we could do with the wealth of one hundred and seventy one individuals in this overpopulated island. Quite frankly if they want to piss off and take their wealth with them it will make no difference to most of us at this point as they do not contribute: they merely take.

https://equalitytrust.org.uk/obscene-wealth-simulator

You might want to consider what wealth is anyway. Just a series of electronic numbers on a balance sheet in the ether??

Of course it matters if they piss off. They’re not just taking their money, but their businesses and their investments in the country. That’s employment, wages, growth, etc. Even if you don’t think they’re paying what they should, a greater number of net contributors will produce more revenue. As it stands, the outflow of wealth is putting a greater burden on those with less.

The ‘piss of then’ attitude isn’t offending or hurting those it’s aimed at, because they’re gladly pissing off and not looking back.

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 14:56

People won't vote for this, so I'm kinda at a loss to really move on the topic. Also, it's too late, so there's that.

They won't. I think what will happen is that the older people who can afford it will go private for healthcare & the ones who can't will have to wait & suffer. Same with social care, a relatives elderly parents have had carers for the past 6 months paid privately, approx 2k a week. They could afford it & meant they lived their last days as they wanted. If you need the state to pay the care won't be there. Euthanasia will become legal.

Scalottia · 04/06/2023 15:06

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 11:50

Oh what a shame, fewer humans. However will the planet manage

Did a human post this or AI? 😆

I guess you'll never know 😉

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 15:12

It's got to be AI as a human would surely have removed themselves to save the planet before typing that 😆 Maybe AI will remove us to save the planet!

Famzonhol · 04/06/2023 15:17

Oliotya · 04/06/2023 14:39

Can't have everything though can we? We can maintain generational inequality OR have enough workers to look after them OR protect our green spaces.

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We can do all three if the habitable parts of the planet aren’t overcrowded.

Scalottia · 04/06/2023 15:24

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 15:12

It's got to be AI as a human would surely have removed themselves to save the planet before typing that 😆 Maybe AI will remove us to save the planet!

What a strange thing to post. Shall I go off myself then? I mean, I didn't ask to be born, but here we are.

C1N1C · 04/06/2023 15:43

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 14:33

@C1N1C when are you going to remove yourself then?

I'm not reproducing. I bet you are.

Oliotya · 04/06/2023 15:44

C1N1C · 04/06/2023 15:43

I'm not reproducing. I bet you are.

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Presumably you also intend to decline any care or pension provided by other peoples children?

C1N1C · 04/06/2023 15:49

Oliotya · 04/06/2023 15:44

Presumably you also intend to decline any care or pension provided by other peoples children?

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Don't start this. I simply said the world is overpopulated and my contribution to that is to not reproduce. How you deal with it is your business.

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 16:25

I'm not reproducing. I bet you are.

I already said upthread but I don't see myself or my dc as a virus. You do...

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 16:27

What a strange thing to post. Shall I go off myself then? I mean, I didn't ask to be born, but here we are.

I think your contribution is much stranger...

Successstory82 · 04/06/2023 16:30

@C1N1C

out of interest

this issue aside ie no controversy whatsoever around having children and the climate etc

Would you have had children? Ie did you want them

Successstory82 · 04/06/2023 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Boobe · 04/06/2023 16:48

Newnamenewname109870 · 03/06/2023 18:47

Thank you!

All these adults thinking it would be good if we just died out, are you ok with being looked after by one robot per 50 people in your nursing home? 🙄 if human are so bad, why do you still exist?

Well that's silly. 'If you care about flimate why haven't you killer yourself?' Great argument.

But I won't lie, I did laugh at the thought of one poor robot managing 50 people...

C1N1C · 04/06/2023 18:31

@Successstory82

Sort of diverting from the thread... in my case, don't want children, wouldn't want to bring a child into my life, and I don't believe the normal justifications like them taking care of you, to continue family line, to give your life meaning, because that's what we're meant to do etc, are good enough reasons.

But a post like this where you say the world is overpopulated and the decline in the health of the planet is solely down to human intervention, etc, is bound to get backlash. The petty retort is then 'why don't you die if you feel that way' (as above).

If the world's resources are finite, then a population decline will prolong them... but MN is a forum basically based on reproduction, so can this topic ever be answered truthfully without backlash?

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 04/06/2023 21:11

@Boobe it's not really that silly. Some posters have actual glee in their posts about humans dying/dying out. We're all awful and terrible ,a plague on the planet and the best thing we could do is die.So why are they still alive, and more importantly why did some of them have children?

What makes THEM so special?

inamarina · 04/06/2023 21:22

C1N1C · 04/06/2023 14:26

Couldn't this have happened 50 years ago when we still had clean air and water, fish in the oceans and a rainforest???

I'll never understand the attitude that we need to have 2.4 children to keep the population growing... no, we're a virus on this planet and as a species, we could quite easily achieve all that we are now, and maintain genetic diversity with as few as 2000 people... but let's say a safe million. Anything more than that is arrogance, indulgence, ignorance...

but let's say a safe million.

How generous!

inamarina · 04/06/2023 21:27

lieselotte · 04/06/2023 14:48

There are too many people in the world so we need fewer people. Also it's better for women if we don't have as many children.

There may be a bit of short term pain as we have more old people than young people, but that will resolve itself soon enough.

I can't get worried about population decline. It's a good thing.

Also it's better for women if we don't have as many children.

Except for the women who want (multiple) children.

Famzonhol · 04/06/2023 22:15

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 04/06/2023 21:11

@Boobe it's not really that silly. Some posters have actual glee in their posts about humans dying/dying out. We're all awful and terrible ,a plague on the planet and the best thing we could do is die.So why are they still alive, and more importantly why did some of them have children?

What makes THEM so special?

Always the people who take personal offence at everything.

Drug abuse is bad for humanity.
Oh really? I once smoked a joint. So you’re saying I’m bad are you? You’re saying you’re better than me? You’re saying I should die? You’re saying I’m scum and should be shot and stabbed and so should my children?

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 04/06/2023 22:18

Oh the irony .Grin

hyggeb · 04/06/2023 22:51

So you’re saying I’m bad are you? You’re saying you’re better than me? You’re saying I should die? You’re saying I’m scum and should be shot and stabbed and so should my children?

I'm saying you should probably put the phone down & maybe some time for reflection, I think you've had too much internet today 😆