We need to start talking about population decline

[user4567890754]

The first signs of it are starting to show in the UK, with primary school closures. Secondary school closures will follow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11158f12-0133-11ee-a364-04e704863f75?shareToken=5ef47b2b4776be376153089146c8bacf

Italy is a few years ahead of us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/plunging-birthrate-threatens-italian-schools

Japan shows where every country is headed - towards a crisis where they are on the brink of being unable to maintain social functions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/13/asia/japan-population-decline-record-drop-intl-hnk/index.html

And yet there are still people who think that we have a problem with overpopulation. It’s the opposite.

@SunnyEgg where would they go to if they leave the area?

You’re probably right.
I find those comments just so bizarre, like from some parallel universe.
In real life, I know many people who care about the environment and are generally very considerate, but nobody wishes to die out as far as I know.

@Florenz is your dc as rich as you & therefore allowed to have dc?

Even bacteria in a Petri dish will slow down reproduction when there are too many of them.

Humans are responding to overcrowding. Numbers of babies go up during wars and famines and tough times because we can sense that lots of us will die prematurely and we need to replace ourselves. During times of prosperity baby numbers fall. Times might still be tough financially for many families but the population isn’t dying prematurely. What there’s not enough of is space and privacy. Quality becomes more important than quantity. Or it should.

Fair enough as long as widowed Agnes across the road can just stay in her home and area that helps her feel welcome and not lonely for as long as she can manage it

I think Theresa May talked about a one off social care lump sum? I can’t remember how it worked but it didn’t get through

YABU- we need global population to stabilise and I can understand that a lifetime of population growth by high birth rates can feel like population decline when growth has slowed to the point our population now only increases due to living longer and immigration. But population is not declining. And this is something we absolutely need for sustainability of human life on Earth.

It's going to take a literal revolution to deal with this and I just don't see people having it in them.

People aspire to be rich so they think if they vote for increased capital gains or whatever they will disadvantage their future self as one day they want a btl. They see themselves more aligned with the wealthy then the poor not realising that they are closer to the poor & they are voting for policies that makes things more unequal for thdm.

But surely everyone who has a child is a contributor..... a contributor of new human beings that we badly need.
Just because parents don't get paid for having children doesn't mean that having children doesn't contribute to society!
Ultimately I think we will end up having to pay people a full-time wage if we want them to agree be parents

@SunnyEgg yes TM did have a similar proposal but it was hated. Not sure why.

I forget to mention the care cap which I think is 100k? I think this should be a % actually. How is it fair that my parents only pay 100k out of a 1.8m house when someone somewhere else might only have a house worth 200k.

Encouraging people out of their homes is the easiest way to help solve both the housing crisis and care sector. With the added bonus of protecting green spaces from further construction.
People living in more suitable accommodation, closer to support services and family would need less assistance.
It's frankly absurd that we spend public money keeping old people in large houses when the people providing the care are sharing flats on minimum wage.

@Oliotya there could certainly be incentives to downsize eg reduced stamp duty. I just don't think anyone should be forced.

It's frankly absurd that we spend public money keeping old people in large houses when the people providing the care are sharing flats on minimum wage.

Yes this is an issue.

But why do we need more people?
We need them to be the next generation of taxpayers

If the people having the kids are from a benefits background then those children have a much higher likelihood of being on benefits and/or not paying tax.

We need women with high work ethic and aspirational women to be having children to cultivate a better society

Women with a strong work ethic tend to choose a well-paid job over having children

Couldn't this have happened 50 years ago when we still had clean air and water, fish in the oceans and a rainforest???

I'll never understand the attitude that we need to have 2.4 children to keep the population growing... no, we're a virus on this planet and as a species, we could quite easily achieve all that we are now, and maintain genetic diversity with as few as 2000 people... but let's say a safe million. Anything more than that is arrogance, indulgence, ignorance...

Let’s keep on increasing the population and forcing older people out of their homes to make way for the new ones.

@C1N1C when are you going to remove yourself then?

Exactly. That's the problem.

Can't have everything though can we? We can maintain generational inequality OR have enough workers to look after them OR protect our green spaces.

We need both men and women with a strong work ethic and affordable housing for those already here not people who have arrived more recently.

I think this is where park of the problem lies

Sorry part not park

Therein lies the problem. It’s not the birth rate or the population that’s the issue. The system is designed to exploit most people, they do not benefit from the system especially beyond merely staying alive to continue feeding it - and without any real political force wiling to at least improve it - capitalism will end up eating itself. The serpent eating its own tail. Does that mean communism should replace it Corbyn style, no. Absolutely not.

We are wrong to place the financial and physical burden on the young. That needs to be rectified immediately. I wouldn’t be adverse to a tax on property with spare bedrooms and a bigger one still on secondary properties. I hope Labour do this if they are voted in. The old can not opt to sit on billions expecting the young to carry the responsibility for much longer.

Lots of Eastern Europeans where I live too.

There are too many people in the world so we need fewer people. Also it's better for women if we don't have as many children.

There may be a bit of short term pain as we have more old people than young people, but that will resolve itself soon enough.

I can't get worried about population decline. It's a good thing.