To have been honest with SIL about her DS5 months

[queasyjet]

I have a very upset SIL on my hands and want to know whether I was being unreasonable for being honest with her after all this time.

She has a 5, nearly 6 month old son. Since having him both her and my brother have been absolutely nuts for want of a better phrase.

No one was allowed to visit until he was 2 months old, my parents were heartbroken (although they were told they could spend £££ on food shopping and drop it off at their door every week of course)

Visits started when he hit 10 weeks, but no one was allowed to hold him, she has read some absolute bullshit online and thinks anyone who touches his cheek will break his face, if you tickle his feet it will cause some form of internal injury, she isn’t the brightest bulb in the lamp so believes any old shit she reads on Instagram.

I can count on one hand how many times my parents have cuddled him, I’ve been allowed to hold him once, my partner hasn’t been given that honour yet and we see them 2 times a week! My grandad was in tears last week as yet again he had been refused to have his great grandson on his lap for 2 minutes. He has held him once.

The family all have views on this but no one has said anything, but my SIL was asking me at a family event yesterday evening why people don’t seem bothered about interacting with my nephew anymore. I was honest and said it’s because no one has a bond with him since we’ve all been held at arms length. I personally no longer care about holding him, which is really sad, but I’ve given up hoping to one day have a nice cuddle or stroke his hair, play with his feet and sing this little piggy etc.

A friend had a child a month after my brother and SIL and my partner and I are so much closer to them as we actually get to bond with her, we are allowed to hold her for hours, feed her, take her out for walks etc. I find it wild how my SIL can’t see a correlation between not allowing anyone to bond with her son and people no longer caring.

she is now upset but in my view she asked and for once I was honest. I’m not sure based on this reaction whether she actually wanted people to chase after her in terms of begging for a crumb, and now people don’t even bother to ask to hold him she is getting out of shape about it.

I agree. I think they both need help

There are lots of way to interact with a child without touching them. You can read you can talk. You can play peekaboo. She said there is no bond because they cannot touch. I think that’s ridiculous. She also sees the child at least twice a week there’s lots of time for bonding them however, it seems that unless it’s on her terms then . she cannot bond.

Ok you've got reading a picture book and a game of peekaboo how are you spending the next 20mins? Maybe I'm weird like the OP but if I had to keep a baby at arms length and be careful not to lay a finger on them I wouldn't have the same bond as I would with a baby I could stick on my lap and read a book with or rock the sleep or any of the other things that comes naturally to you when you are around a baby.

In fairness I think covid has had a lot to do with this sort of thing, people are much more aware of how easily things are transmitted by touch, kisses etc, bought in on clothes etc and are quite scared of that (unreasonably in some cases).

Obviously when you have a baby, it's the most precious thing that you've ever had, and you're built to protect it all cost, only time and perspective will start to allay those fears, people round you trying to hold and touch your baby all the time (because they know best!) just makes the anxiety worse, I wouldn't get annoyed at anyone for not letting me touch or hold their baby, I wouldn't even ask unless they offered, I don't understand why so many people get upset when they can't, it'll happen eventually, and the baby certainly won't be any worse off for it.

I have a six month old, not many family members have held him for long to be honest. I didn't stop anyone from visiting but when people come they tend to swoop in in a way that overwhelms DS and he doesn't want to sit with them for more than a minute. He's actually the most chilled baby in the world but others don't know him well enough to read his cues so he ends up being returned to me, DH or DD (13) pretty quickly.

I think it's unfair to write of a bond at this age. They will bond when they are a bit older and more interesting and interactive.

You were fine to tell her but it does sound like your family are a bit dramatic and not very understanding.

This is a really sad situation and one I can completely understand. While it's the parents decision for sure, it's much harder to form a bond with a baby you're not allowed to interact with. Even more so for the baby to form a bond with you if it's not allowed to play with people. I've always thought that socialisation is really important from a young age. My SIL has been the same and we've noticed that now a few years later whenever anyone apart from the parents interact with DN (I'm not talking strangers either I'm talking friends and family etc) DN screams and cries. Other kids of the same age who's parents were more relaxed in the earlier stages have much more friendly children. We don't really have any relationship with DN and she hasn't bonded with us. It's just really sad but there's not much we can do. We can't force the parents or the child to let us play and cuddle. I just hope SIL doesnt come to regret her decision.

Whilst some of her requests seem extreme, to me she just sounds like an anxious new mum and you and your family sound quite overbearing, pushy and treating this baby like a doll that you’re all entitled to indulge yourself in with cuddles etc.
Yes that’s nice , but it isn’t your baby. You have no automatic right over the baby. No one has an automatic right to hold anyone’s baby, but their own. Your grandfather cried over it? Come on!
No one held my dc for months due to covid and it was quite refreshing actually, to not have to play pass the parcel with my new baby.

I have to say my MIL kept wanting to come round to "help" in the early days.

When she's round I have to be up, dressed, house presentable, baby happy, fed and ready for her to hold. It's exhausting. Her coming over definitely wasn't a help to me.

Far, far easier to not have your in laws family round when you're recovering. It's not your SIL's direct family - she's not going to want them there when she's newly postpartum, ill and recovering - it'll be a huge effort for her. So I understand no visitors for first two months while she was recovering.

As for the rest, I think it's a bit OTT, but sounds like postpartum anxiety to me.

It's probably much easier than faffing about with stupid nursing bras and muslin cloths 😜

I'm sorry OP, how upsetting.

My baby is the same age and I couldn't imagine not allowing loving family members to hold him, cuddle him, play with him, feed him etc it's so special and lovely watching your baby bond with loved ones.

You were right to say something, she asked and all you did was tell the truth.

You are not unreasonable to tell her your truthful opinion, when asked.

You and the rest of the family ARE being unreasonable to be so utterly obsessed about holding someone's baby, when mum is clearly uncomfortable with it, as if you have some sort of monopoly.

'My grandad was in tears last week as yet again he had been refused to have his great-grandson on his lap for 2 minutes'. Give over, for goodness sake.

Guilt-tripping someone into changing their boundaries isn't fair at all, and quite nasty to be honest.

He's a baby, not a toy. If my family was being that odd over it around me, I'd refuse as well as I'd be getting uncomfortable with the incessant need. It's not like none of you have held him. Yes, it's lovely to hold babies, but I don't get people who get so OTT about other people's babies, to be honest, and feel they have the right to touch them.

RE the feet thing. Maybe she's just saying that as an excuse because she doesn't want you touching him. If I was her, I'd be fed up with having to explain myself/my stance or answer to people as to why they can't be touchy with my baby, over and over again. You don't need to touch them to bond. I haven't seen my friend's children for years as I live far away. I still speak to them on the phone, send gifts, video call, etc. You don't need to tickle his feet to bond with him, at all.

What was she “secretive” about?

Everything- she clearly wasn’t interested in forming any relationship with us family members.

Everything? Such as what?

I had severe post partum depression & anxiety a couple years ago, to the point where I ended up being sectioned for several months. I hid how I was feeling from my overbearing in-laws for as long as I possibly could, as their behaviour and derogatory comments would send me spiralling. I hate to say but your posts reminds me of how they would talk and act around me/my baby.

You specifically ask if you were being unreasonable, yet are seemingly hostile and aggressive to anyone who is responding telling you that perhaps you were. Did you just want/expect everyone to agree with you?

I would strongly, strongly suggest she is referred to her local Perinatal Mental Health Team asap. They will be able to help her with the anxiety whether this be through talking therapies, medication or nursery nurse intervention etc. It is easy to get referred through a GP and there won't be a wait.

You will be able to cuddle your nephew at some point - she won't feel this way forever. In the meantime I would politely suggest perhaps a little more compassion from you and your family, and an understanding of how utterly draining and difficult it must be for your SiL to have this level of anxiety.

I don't think there was anything wrong with being truthful. However, reading this it sounds like your SIL has a bad case of post natal anxiety OP.

I had it. Trust me its terrifying and debilitating. It took me about a year of medication and counselling to get through it. And I still get niggles of it.

Perhaps you could try to address this in a gentle way. You may be able to help.

Also, did you dislike her this much prior to her giving birth to her son? I have to say, I wouldn't want anyone who called me thick behind my back, anywhere near my children. So it's perhaps a good thing she's keeping you all at arms length.

Sometime what comes across as a 'loving family' can quite often be overbearing, interfering, forceful and unpleasant characters. Can't help but deduce the latter, to be honest, in your case.

I don’t think you were unreasonable in answering the question you were asked.

I do think it’s odd no one has broached the subject with your brother, your post seems focused on your SIL, so does your brother agree or is he being supportive of his partner.

Like others have suggested your SIL could have anxiety and might need wider family support.

Do these rules apply to SIL’s family too?

It’s such a shame to read that people are giving up on having a relationship with the baby. It’s not the baby’s fault and would be nice if people would remain open to trying to develop a bond as time goes on.

YABU

So what if she wanted to be ultra protective - that’s not a bad thing for a new mum. But you sound really quite spiteful about her, putting her down through the whole of your post and then seemingly delighted that she asked you openly about it. So you could throw it back in her face!

You don’t sound like you like her one bit.

Some nasty posters here. I think the topic hits some women hard if they have had to deal with PND and unhelpful inlaws. However, her behaviour is bonkers and she seems happy to accept money and free dinners weekly so clearly you lot are not that bad. Having a baby does not suddenly turn a woman into a fucking saint. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Add in the MLM stuff and you can clearly see a picture of a pretty insecure, self absorbed woman and PND just made that worse.

YANBU to respond honestly when asked.

She wants the attention and to tell people no. To have that feeling of having something that people want.

Now people aren't bothering she isn't getting that attention. If it was anxiety she would be happy people have stopped bothering. But its not. She wants attention.

I agree, have someone very similar in my family- it’s always all about them, regardless of new baby

She will have picked up on the vibe that you don't like her. You've got a very... direct way of replying to people on here and if you interact with your SIL in the same way, well, some people don't respond very positively to that. It might be that she feels your whole family are too direct for her to relax around, it might be that she had read this that or the other online, it might be that she has got a personal or close family link with childhood abuse that means she finds it difficult to hand her baby to a man, and she might have post partum anxiety on top of any or none of that. I imagine if she is dealing with any of those things or anything else, hearing somebody that you know doesn't like you much and doesn't approve of your parenting methods tell you that their entire half of the family have lost interest in your baby (and that it's your fault) must feel very upsetting to hear.

Exactly this! Although I had PPA and still let people hold my son, but I guess it manifests itself in different ways!

3 years down the line it’s still not much better :(