Contacting school about male teacher

[Slidingdowntherainbow]

My child goes to a preschool attached to a primary school. The Head is always on the gate each morning welcoming children (and parents) in the gates, we see her every morning.

The other day, I went to collect my child earlier than usual and walked past the playing field as usual, it's on the way to the preschool.

It was a hot day and the Head, along with another female colleague, was sitting on a grass bank watching the children and I know they saw this as they laughed.

A male teacher was walking along the playing field with each hand squeezing two girls shoulders. So he was between them, with a hand on each of their outside shoulders, seemingly squeezing. The girls were giggling and the the Head laughed. Not that I think it matters as he shouldn't be touching them at all, but it wasn't a quick squeeze, he was more resting his hands there for a good 30 seconds I'd say.

Anyway, it may be nothing, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. 1) it's inappropriate to touch a pupil for no good reason 2) he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why.

Do I report this? My child won't be going to this school so I'm not worried about that. More that the Head actually saw this with her own eyes and laughed, so I suspect will be defensive. I then have to walk past her daily, potentially for the next two years. Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

I'm not suggesting anything more than this has happened, but isn't this a slippery slope? Should a teacher (especially male), be touching pupils necks?

Would appreciate opinions please!

Yes, there are many reasons. And people feeling like the OP has described is one of them.

No one is suggesting a character assassination. I’m suggesting a low level concern is reported, which should be dealt with discretely and professionally by the DSL.

In what world is a no touch policy great ? It’s assuming all touching is bad and it’s not . Children need to touch others to play , they like holding hands , they like to piggy back , they like to hug, play tag etc ! Saying to any child they are not allowed to touch in any way goes against basic human needs and is creating a massive issue for the future .
what people need to teach their children is to advocate for themselves and speak up if they feel uncomfortable. The world is going backwards

So you were walking unaccompanied through school grounds (that your child doesn't go to) on the way to the preschool attached at a time other than usual pick up? I'd be more concerned that you were allowed to do that than anything else.

I’ve seen men touch women on the shoulder in a friendly way. I’ve also seen it in a creepy way. The OP said she felt it wasn’t quite right, too lingering, whatever. She didn’t feel right and she should be encouraged to report just that.

Yes.

School office here btw. Parents aren't allowed on site unaccompanied unless they have DBS clearance and are here for a specific reason, not just to wander around collecting kids from the next door school.

Yes, there are many reasons. And people feeling like the OP has described is one of them.

I'd agree that there was a problem within organisations not reporting low level concerns, but this isn't OP saying "I volunteer to hear pupils read and I've noticed a particular member of staff does ABC, and I saw them with Ben and Jane being a bit too overly familiar which doesn't seem right".

It's "I walk past a school that has nothing to do with me or my children, have never met this member of staff, but have decided this man gives me the ick, he's arrogant, I don't like his demeanor and then I saw him touch a pupil's shoulder in full view of the head teacher".

It's totally different.

No one is suggesting a character assassination. I’m suggesting a low level concern is reported, which should be dealt with discretely and professionally by the DSL.
You're not suggesting character assassination, but the OP has formulated her own unpleasant version of this staff member's character based on zero interactions. She's never met him and has already decided he's some sort of big presence, arrogant, she doesn't like his demeanor, he gives her the ick and then suggested he's a safeguarding risk.

She also decided that the head is likely to be defensive about it, because the head was present and smiling or something.

It's quite a series of leaps, and honestly quite an unusual level of leaps for a school/staff member that has nothing to do with her or her children.

OP is obviously free to report it and if she has serious concerns that this is a safeguarding issue, she should. Any concerns should obviously be handled professionally.

Exactly this. I would not want to stop teachers touching children to encourage or comfort them. These relationships are really important. But it's naive in the extreme to think there are not a proportion of these touches that lead to something else.

Similarly worrying is the number of people saying "it definitely wasn't abuse because teachers have a DBS and safeguarding training". I mean come on. Neither of those things prevent a determined abuser. Nor does the fact that other trusted adults are aware. Loads of people knew about Jimmy savile, told Harris etc. Still the abuse carried on for years, often in public places.

I would say always trust your instincts.

Are you from the same school as the OP? At the school my children attend, parents have to go on site to collect and drop off children, at least up to year 4.

I'm glad I don't work where you do, or with you then....

Who are you going to report it to?

Presumably the Head who was watching? The Head that had no problem with it.....

Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

Jesus wept. You’re more bothered about being known as the one who reported than preventing child abuse. FWIW I don’t see that there’s anything to report but you clearly do and you’ve gone to great lengths to justify your thoughts here. But not concerned enough to do the only right thing when you do suspect abuse, which is to report it, because Big Bad Man Teacher will know it was you.

If you’re not going to report it, stop posting about it.

It wasn’t a zero touch policy! I gave examples.

And it wasn’t just a blanket ‘don’t touch’ thing. Children were told why their friends might not like to be hugged or pushed or grabbed by the hand etc.
It was more a no- touch thing for staff towards children than children to children but the children knew that not all of their class mates wanted to be touched, hugged, played with their hair, tickled etc. And if say a teacher saw a child hugging someone, they would most likely ask that child if they were happy to be hugged…..they wouldn’t be reprimanded.

For the children, It was more of a school culture thing than a behaviour thing.

The Op:
You've totally changed what I said. How can it be personal when I've said I don't know him?! I don't know the man, so how can I dislike him?

Also the Op:
I said, and you quoted, I don't like his demeanor. But that, I mean, I don't like the attitude he gives off when he's hanging outside the classrooms in the morning. His seemingly arrogant attitude.

That looks pretty personal and like you don't like him. You perceive him to have an arrogant attitude from how he stands outside the classrooms. You don't know him yet you've really harshly judged him. Is he a secret crush who doesn't give you a second glance or something?

I find issues like this really interesting as at
my children’s school parents are allowed in al the time for assemblies, to observe their children in class, school plays, sports days etc and those parents and we certainly aren’t required to be DBS checked first. Surely just having a reason to be there is sufficient enough?

As an aside though, my son’s class (Year 1, aged 5-6) recently went on a school outing to the local park/fields for all the children to go on a treasure hunt looking for different types of flowers, insects, birds etc and the teacher asked for three parents to volunteer to help out. These three parents were then given a group of 6-7 children each and sent off on their merry way. The class teacher was also there but she was in no way supervising what the parent volunteers were up to as she had her own group of 7 children to accompany and look after.

I have to say that I did find that odd.

Apologies, I thought it was obvious that assemblies etc were a given. I'm talking about wandering round the school grounds by themselves at other times.

So what happens with school pick-ups and drop-offs? There are literally hundreds of parents walking around on the school grounds to make their way to the different areas on site (various playgrounds for example) where they need to drop off and collect their child from.

So how does it work at your school? Are the children ushered out to the parents at the end of the day who are nearby but off site? How is that managed? And how are the children managed at drop-off? Are they handed over to a member of staff one-by-one who then takes them to their classroom?

Advising someone applies a bit of caution before they create a whole character assassination of a person they've never met, in a school that they aren't involved with, based on on an observation across a field where other pupils and staff were present isn't the reason.

being hesitant to report because you don’t want to ruin someone’s life if you get it wrong is also one of the reasons abuse gets unreported. Someone reporting should not worry about ‘creating a whole character assassination’ through reporting a low level concern discretely through the correct channels.

You're not suggesting character assassination, but the OP has formulated her own unpleasant version of this staff member's character based on zero interactions. She's never met him and has already decided he's some sort of big presence, arrogant, she doesn't like his demeanor, he gives her the ick and then suggested he's a safeguarding risk.

Not relevant.

@MyTruthIsOut Parents go to the classroom doors and the children are let out to their grown up. Each classroom has an an outside door, I know that isn't always the case in older buildings. If a parent is late they come to the office and the child is brought out. We expect parents at that time and act accordingly. They aren't allowed inside the school past the reception area.

But the point is that if a parent comes to collect outside of pick up times then they aren't allowed to wander across school grounds or inside the building by themselves. For example, we are a junior school and the infants are next door but completely separate. If a parent wants to get to the infant school they can't cut across the juniors to get there.

I’ll just reword your post…”should I potentially ruin a man’s life and career because I have a strange paranoia about him”.

'Trust your instincts based fleeting looks and no interactions whatsoever' is the the motto of every lynch mob ever. Presumably your school has some books you would like to burn too?

being hesitant to report because you don’t want to ruin someone’s life if you get it wrong is also one of the reasons abuse gets unreported. Someone reporting should not worry about ‘creating a whole character assassination’ through reporting a low level concern discretely through the correct channels.
I've not mentioned anything about not ruining someone's life. I've also not said people shouldn't report in case they're wrong either.
🤷‍♀️

Reporting a safeguarding concern is not creating a character assassination.

Inventing a whole personality assessment of a person you've never met and has only seen at a distance is odd, especially when deeming them to be a safeguarding threat based on your interpretation of something you've seen at a distance (and your interpretation is based on a long list of reasons you have decided this person is ick, all whilst openly admitting you've don't know the person).

Like I've said if OP believes this is a safeguarding concern then they are free to raise it with the school and it should be responded to professionally.

Comparing someone who raises low-level safeguarding concerns with a school, the NSPCC, Social Services, or whatever, with a ‘lynch mob’, is troubling to say the least. It’s scaremongering isn’t it?

To readers - please don’t hold off from reporting your concerns if something doesn’t seem right. It might be nothing, but it could be something.

They were your words. You suggested OP excerted some caution before creating a character assassination, when she’s asked for advice about reporting.

I maintain what I said , it’s creating an issue . Goes against human nature , teaches nothing and they won’t even know how to stand up fur themselves outside school . Makes nil sense . I would not allow my children to go to such place .