Contacting school about male teacher

[Slidingdowntherainbow]

My child goes to a preschool attached to a primary school. The Head is always on the gate each morning welcoming children (and parents) in the gates, we see her every morning.

The other day, I went to collect my child earlier than usual and walked past the playing field as usual, it's on the way to the preschool.

It was a hot day and the Head, along with another female colleague, was sitting on a grass bank watching the children and I know they saw this as they laughed.

A male teacher was walking along the playing field with each hand squeezing two girls shoulders. So he was between them, with a hand on each of their outside shoulders, seemingly squeezing. The girls were giggling and the the Head laughed. Not that I think it matters as he shouldn't be touching them at all, but it wasn't a quick squeeze, he was more resting his hands there for a good 30 seconds I'd say.

Anyway, it may be nothing, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. 1) it's inappropriate to touch a pupil for no good reason 2) he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why.

Do I report this? My child won't be going to this school so I'm not worried about that. More that the Head actually saw this with her own eyes and laughed, so I suspect will be defensive. I then have to walk past her daily, potentially for the next two years. Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

I'm not suggesting anything more than this has happened, but isn't this a slippery slope? Should a teacher (especially male), be touching pupils necks?

Would appreciate opinions please!

Wth? I did NOT make it sexual!!!!

I meant ‘touching’ in any capacity. Not touching as in abuse necessarily!
My own children’s primary school actually had a no touching policy which worked really well. It included children not touching other children as well for example and this meant that the level of physical bullying was extremely low.

And before you say it, no it wasn’t clinical and didn’t mean that all the kids grew up devoid of emotion - it just simply meant that the children (and adults) knew the boundaries and respected each other. It didn’t mean that a TA couldn’t put a plaster on someone’s knee or that kids didn’t hold hands in the playground.

But your view is also tainted by your personal dislike of the said teacher, which you admitted. You have some sort of issue with him that is personal. I am not sure if you saw another teacher in this situation you would have batter an eyelid, but here because you already have a dislike for him and his big personality grates you, and as a result you found what he was doing inappropriate. If the HT saw the situation they are likely to have a much better understanding of the safegurding and the actual situation and context of this.

You've totally changed what I said. How can it be personal when I've said I don't know him?!

You can't just take my words and run away with them, then attempt to use them again me.

As I read thiis. I see my son coming out of school and his hair being ruffled by his Male teacher as he left the yard.
Straight to the principal I'm assuming!!

Is their Ofsted report good because the school near me had to fix up quick they were not reporting bullying because they want to protect their Ofsted. Kids will be kids and they will always find a way to upset another child or to pick on another. One of my daughter's didn't tell me and this was meant to be a good school.

That wasn't the situation. There were multiple classes on the field, no signs of anyone leaving the field, he wasn't leading them anywhere. He was walking between two girls, with this hands lingering on their outside shoulders, in what appeared to me to be a prolonged squeeze. It's also possible he was resting his hands on their shoulders.

Im not sure why people think he was chivvying them along or guiding them somewhere. Or that they were children with SEN as some people suggested (this could be the case but it didn't look to be a reason why he did it as it was a general play time and they were walking together and giggling).

I'm happy to accept we have different views, but please don't put different scenarios in the mix. I was there, I know what I saw and I've explained it clearly. No guiding, no redirecting, no supporting. He was probably trying and succeeding to make them laugh. To me, he was still inappropriate to touch them.

Eh? Yes it’s continuously an outstanding school although my two have now both left school. I said nothing about their bullying policy and neither did I say bullying didn’t ever happen. Just that it was low (physical bullying).

And will you be apologising for your previous comment and the part where you said ‘shame on you’?

Euh no, you said "he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why." So it is personal weird dislike that is tainting your view.Maybe you know why you dislike him, maybe you trully don't, but he clearly has grated you before for some reason and now you are trying to catch him doing the wrong thing

Exactly. I've tried to consider the view that touching is needed for children, but I just can't see any reason, beyond a quick hug if crying or to administer first aid, why touching would be necessary. It's perfectly possible to have a positive school experience without touching.

As a side note. I remember at secondary school (all girls), the deputy head took a liking to my friend. She was bubbly and very flirty, she flirted with him relentlessly. But instead of telling her to stop coming to his room, or creating distance, he lapped it up and reciprocated the flirting. It wouldn't have been obvious to those outside but as someone who loitered while waiting for my friend, it was blattently awkward and inappropriate. He didn't take it further, but I still remember him decades on leering at her legs and have no doubts that he had these situations with other young girls. He was inappropriate but got away with it. And sadly, it's often the vulnerable kids, who for a variety of reasons, attract this kind of teacher/person in position of power.

You've definitely misinterpreted the training. Numerous people have told you now that this isn't inappropriate touch.

I would be more concerned if training was telling people children should not be touched except in a life or death situation. Appropriate touch is fine and also, necessary, how do children learn what is ok if the school staff are so stand off ish.

Safeguarding is my whole job and I would have no concerns at all about what you've posted about here, as an isolated incident, unless there is something else to suggest he is acting inappropriately, there is nothing at all wrong with this.

I agree it is a serious shame this is how people think, kids, especially little boys can be often lacking in male role models and the very few male primary teachers are being scared off by this exact kind of thing. Now that does a whole host of damage in the long run, certainly more than a hand on a shoulder!

The reasons that CSA often goes undetected are many and varied. Blaming DSL's for this because they have (correctly) pointed out that the scenario described in the OP does not constitue a safeguarding issue is not only unfair, it is a gross oversimplification of a complex issue. The majority who have responded to OP have been balanced and not unkind.

Of course any parent or member of the public has a right to talk to a DSL, and to be listened to. That doesn't mean they will get the response they want, but they should always be listened to. The reality is that if a large number of parents regarded a public touch on the shoulder as a "low level concern" that needed reporting school then safeguarding teams would be in big trouble. We would he inundated to the point that we would be unable to function effectively if we actively encouraged parents to 'report' things that are entirely commonplace and not against policy in the majority of schools.

It’s a teacher who knows them really really well. Its a friendly gesture. It’s their shoulders. It’s in public. If this alarms you, don’t ever watch a gymnastics teacher trying to teach children. They put their hands on their waists, hands, torsos and feet.

I was getting ahead of myself I apologise.

@Slidingdowntherainbow if it was a woman in the scenario you saw, if it was a male teacher who didn't give the 'ick' would you still want to report it?

little boys can be often lacking in male role models and the very few male primary teachers are being scared off by this exact kind of thing.

The reason why no one is above being treated with suspicion, is not because of people like the OP raising concerns, it’s because of those who actually are predatory, who spoil it for everyone. If men want to work as teachers in primary schools, this is not going to put them off.

Exactly. I've tried to consider the view that touching is needed for children, but I just can't see any reason, beyond a quick hug if crying or to administer first aid, why touching would be necessary. It's perfectly possible to have a positive school experience without touching.

For some kids yes, my DD has various issues that mean she needs a lot of reassurance from adults in her life that she is ok. In school this might mean a hand on her shoulder or a touch on her back, or a hug depending on situation and staff. We’ve worked hard on boundaries with her so she doesn’t seek or accept touch from just anyone but in school staff know she sometimes needs that physical contact. I’d never put her in a school with a no touch policy.

I’ve experienced seeing a teacher from a different cultural background ruffling a pupils hair, was very touchy-feely and I did mention it to someone that he needed to be reigned in and this was noted and understood. I didn’t assume he was doing anything ‘wrong’ as such, just that he had a different way of relating to children than is the cultural norm in the UK. It needed to be nipped in the bud so he would keep an appropriate professional distance. School pupils are not the nephews and nieces of the teachers, where everyone is informal and free to behave as they do at home. The teachers are at work so the relationships are necessarily very different.

Maybe you do have a gut feeling about this particular teacher which is telling you something. I went to school with a guy who creeped me out, and years after I left school it was in the papers that he was a paedophile.

However, I would not report a teacher walking along, laughing and touching children's shoulders, in view of other adults including the headteacher. It's really not enough for anyone to take action and will just make you look odd.

I haven't read the full thread. I read the first page and people are really laying into you OP.

FWIW, I would feel uncomfortable too. Especially the heads response. He sounds creepy to me!

You can report it to the school / head teacher if you like, but unless there have been actual instances where this teacher has been seen to be / suspected of doing something inappropriate, it will be a note on a file and nothing else, because any reasonable person can assess this situation as being perfectly fine within the context of adults caring for children appropriately.

its frightening the number of posters who claim to be safeguarding leads telling the OP she’s being ridiculous. This is exactly why so many paedophiles get away with years of abusing (not saying this teacher is, just that people are very reluctant to report their concerns because they’re looking for some sort of ‘proof’.

if you’ve seen something that makes you uncomfortable, report it as a low level concern. The head might decide it’s nothing, but also in some cases, multiple low level concerns build up a very concerning picture
The OP says the head was there and saw.

There's many reasons behind historic poor reporting of safeguarding concerns. That's why there's more robust procedures and training these days. It's so why most places have low level concerns policies.

Advising someone applies a bit of caution before they create a whole character assassination of a person they've never met, in a school that they aren't involved with, based on on an observation across a field where other pupils and staff were present isn't the reason.

OP is free to report it if she sees fit and it makes her feel better, but what's she going to say: 'I've never met this member of staff, and neither me nor my children are involved in the school, but I want to report a safeguarding concern because I don't like the demeanor of one of your members of staff. He gives me the ick and I saw him touching a couple of pupils on the shoulder in front of the head, other staff and countless pupils'?

because any reasonable person can assess this situation as being perfectly fine within the context of adults caring for children appropriately.

Clearly there are conflicted views over whether this is ‘perfectly fine’ or not.

What many seem to be saying is that guys in a school should be able to do what they like in terms of touching people After all, they're just being friendly. We don't want their feelings to be hurt. We don't want to get them into trouble. We value them/are so lucky/should be so grateful to have them. They wouldn't do anything wrong. And we certainly wouldn't want to make any work for those who have the job of supervising those men....

Hmmm...

Looking at the vote, 93% of people think it's fine. Are you saying that only 7% of voters are reasonable?