To find this deeply unusual and sad?

[ToTheMax0]

Met a 39 Yr old lady the other day at a small gathering at my neighbours.
I asked if she was married with kids and she looked embarrassed and said no to neither. Later on in the evening, she admitted she had never kissed a man or dated, nothing like that. Not assexual, just nothing has ever led her to a relationship and she's scared to date online but also, not entirely interested. She went to mixed schools but was teased for being ugly and then onto an almost all female college and university. Was never into the pub and club scene as a young woman either. Just find it sad for her.

Sure, if you want to hear about my 14 miscarriages, do go ahead and ask! I might cry on you but I’m done pussyfooting around rude people now…

It's fairly standard "getting to know you" stuff in my experience.

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts - how old are you though? Like I said in my post above, I think this is a dated type of small talk that isn't really socially acceptable without invitiation as it's intrusive and people are aware that it may carry implied judgment and justification.

It's the same as asking someone 'what do you do for work?' if the answer is just a stay at home mom, the person asking has indicated an expectation of a job and it is highlighting a personal life choice someone may not want to justify or feel judged about.

Have to agree you sound nosy and intrusive, OP, and you don't seem embarrassed or ashamed of it either, judging by your replies to posters who have pulled you on it either! YABU!

Her life sounds positively idyllic.

"It's the same as asking someone 'what do you do for work?' if the answer is just a stay at home mom"

Interesting because I was once asked 'Do you work?' I was really shocked as if the person thought I was an heiress or something. I don't much like being asked what my job is, but I accept that it's a normal getting to know you question.

The question was bloody rude, no, it;s not polite or normalk chit chat to be a nosy idiot, sorry. The fact people do it and think it's OK is deeply sad.

I hope your next question was not "But where are you REALLY from?"

I agree. You say that she was 'embarrassed' but I think it's you that should have been. Perhaps she was just astonished at your rudeness in asking those questions? You don't sound socially aware and you sound even more obnoxious by writing a thread about this woman, trying to garner even more 'pity' for her.

Ugh.

If a man has never married, never had kids, never been in a club or dated - society deems them as a “weirdo”

If a woman has never done these things society sees it as “sad”.

Why are we penalising and judging people for living a different lifestyle to what is deemed as “normal” and “acceptable”.

Why does anyone care? Let people live without feeling “sad” for people for living differently to you.

Yes, LyingWitch has phrased what I was thinking so much better than I did!

I am possibly similar in some ways to the person the op met, though not identical. Some reasons why I have not had long term relationships (and therefore children) are to do with trauma I experienced as a child. I am now heading to 60 faster than seems possible!
I am ambivalent about my "status". I some ways I would have loved to have had the opportunity to be married and have children but I'm also not unhappy with my current life. I certainly would have rather never been married than married to some of the partners/husbands people write about on here. It isn't a black and white issue for me. It is neither the best thing ever or "sad and unusual". My life has ups and downs, stresses and strains, freedoms and difficulties, just the same as most people.
What does annoy me though is the attitude that permeates through a lot of society that to be single/childless is somehow "less than".
It is insidious and I think a lot of people can't recognise it ( may be similar to how white people can't really see the hidden micro-agressions that PoC experience?).

Think about all the older childless single women tropes you see on TV/adverts
You get widowed gran, mad cat lady, repressed lesbian, power hungry career woman, part of older couple retiring gracefully, or not so gracefully. There aren't many other representations I can think of.
Adverts showing older women without children/grandchildren are usually for incontinence pads!

I see the normalisation of asking about children and partners as part of this. For those of you who think it is normal to ask this as "part of general chitchat" when you first meet someone, maybe ask yourself " should it be normal?". Do you want to be part of a society who automatically sorts and labels women into partnered/single and mother/childless any more than you want to be part of a society that classifies people by how much they earn?
I have friendships with people of different ages and life situations and enjoy them all.
I'm at the age now when, if I am out with my good friend who has 3 pre-schoolers, I am often automatically referred to as Grandma/nanny by everyone from the ice cream van man to the swimming instructor. In one way I don't mind as it speaks to the close relationship I have with the children and I am of course of grandmotherish age, but the assumption does also get up my nose! My friend's 4 year old is good at saying rather scornfully, "that's not grandma, it's Arti" and I'm glad that she at least can see me for the person I am, rather than a societal label.

You think most ask if a woman is married/has children. Most what - men, women or people in general? I'm a woman and I never ask. I don't think I'm ever asked that question by other women, although I do frequently mention my daughters and granddaughter, so maybe some would if they got the chance before I told them.

If men ask if I'm married or whatever, it's always part of their pick-up routine, so I give evasive replies. I have never known a man to ask a woman in a social setting about marriage and kids. They just aren't interested.

I think it's quite an indictment of how mean dating behaviour/the dating world is these days. It doesn't suit some of us!

Right so we can't talk about marriage/ partners.
We can't talk about children.
We can't talk about work/jobs.
So that just leaves pets, hobbies, books, music, TV and films.... (but their pet might have just died or they are renting a pet-free house, or they are hobby-free, or can't read.....)
Please could we have a comprehensive list of acceptable conversation starters? Thank you.

The weather. Just talk about the weather.

You can talk about them if/when the person mentions them.

You can't start questioning someone about their private life.

It's not difficult.

@ConvallariaMuguet so dull as dishwater convo is allowed....jeez don't think I'll be on the bbq scene this summer🙄

I've already answered that - mid thirties, and it's been standard conversation all my life from people of all ages from 20 to 80.

You can certainly talk about any of the taboo subjects you mention. But only after the person you are talking to has volunteered the information about themselves.

It’s really not that hard, and means you don’t open your mouth and put both feet in. Small talk to start with - the weather, what you’re up to for the rest of the weekend - and someone will soon mention that ‘we’ are doing this or that, or that their weekends revolve around ferrying children around. Then conversation flows naturally.

But point blank starting with a nosy and potentially very personal question should be a no-no. Also don’t ask how much they earn or what their house is worth.

I agree it's extremely far-fetched.

sounds like you are looking down on her OP
Some people are genuinely happy alone, and shes only 39 so its not like she is on deaths door, she still has plenty of time to experience all of those overrated things you mentioned

I don't have children and have had miscarriages in the past - when someone asks me if I've got children I just say "no" - I don't automatically get offended because I know they're just making conversation and trying to get to know me. They're not intentionally being rude or intrusive.

I think it’s sad that you were so shocked that someone has lived a slightly different life to you that you had to come into the internet to share the story!

I am single, no kids (but have had relationships!).

I meet people like you - who quiz about marital status and kids as an opener. I feel sad for them. Their conversation is limited and usually quite boring.

It’s not that you can’t talk about these things, it’s more that you shouldn’t directly ask about them as conversation starters because it puts people on the spot. If someone mentions their partner then I’d say it’s then okay to ask, ‘Oh, are you married?’ but to just come out and ask someone ‘So are you married with children?’ is uncomfortable for those of us single and childless, not least because the response to saying no is usually one of pity and also because it kind of kills the conversation unless you’re going to get into the deeply personal whys.

If you start with something fairly innocuous like TV or music etc then you’ll probably find that they will quickly drop hints as regards to whether they have kids or a partner or a job etc, eg: ‘Oh to be honest the only TV I get to watch is Peppa Pig with the kids’ or ‘I don’t really listen to music but I love a Podcast in the car on the way to work’ etc. Once someone’s dropped something into the conversation it’s fine to then ask more about it, it’s just not always polite to go straight into those kinds of things with someone you don’t know.

@Yerroblemom1923
Don't be daft! Just think of them as a PERSON and try to get to know them a little. "How has your week been?" and "What do you enjoy doing?" are two good starters and then just respond from there according to their answers.
If you had asked me one of those questions, I might have told you a little about my work, or the day I spent with my friend and her littles or the DIY/creative things I like doing. You might then have responded with something about your work or children/grandchildren ( if you have them ) or diy, home decor or whatever. It isn't hard!