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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find this deeply unusual and sad?

455 replies

ToTheMax0 · 28/05/2023 12:04

Met a 39 Yr old lady the other day at a small gathering at my neighbours.
I asked if she was married with kids and she looked embarrassed and said no to neither. Later on in the evening, she admitted she had never kissed a man or dated, nothing like that. Not assexual, just nothing has ever led her to a relationship and she's scared to date online but also, not entirely interested. She went to mixed schools but was teased for being ugly and then onto an almost all female college and university. Was never into the pub and club scene as a young woman either. Just find it sad for her.

OP posts:
78Summer · 28/05/2023 23:16

I know plenty of married people with and without kids who are unhappy. So this is not really an accurate barometer of happiness.

Catsmere · 28/05/2023 23:16

Unless you're asexual, to live your entire life with zero intimacy, dating, romantic moments must be absolutely soul destroying.

Here’s a word for you from one in this position:

Bullshit.

Catsmere · 28/05/2023 23:19

FatCatBum · 28/05/2023 20:15

But I find an 'oh god no, couldn't think of anything worse' usually shuts the nosy judgy bastards down quite quickly

This! My reactions have generally been along these lines. 😏

QueSyrahSyrah · 28/05/2023 23:39

It's also very possible that some came here hoping to be parents, it didn't happen for whatever reason and they stuck around because of the above

Exactly this @Slimmer2018. I came for the conception boards, 3 years later I'm no closer to joining the pregnancy boards, but I've stayed for relationships, AIBU, chat, films & TV, travel, the litter tray, property & DIY.....

Not having kids doesn't render me devoid of experience or interest in other topics.

Back on topic, a friend of mine is happily married with (adult) children but still dreads being asked that question by a stranger, as the follow-up to 'yes I have kids' is always 'how many?' and 25 years after her eldest passed away aged 11, she still doesn't know how to answer appropriately.

LinMortisanass · 29/05/2023 09:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Allrightmylover · 29/05/2023 09:55

My 94 year old neighbour told me she had never even kissed a man. She is a beautifully turned out woman who I think probably found men just a bit too lowbrow. She is sharp as a tack and incredibly witty. I also have a friend who is in her seventies and she has shown me photos of herself in the 1970’s, she was absolutely gorgeous but as a devout Christian she has spent her life helping others. Not all women want marriage and children.

Frenulumetta · 29/05/2023 10:02

What are you supposed to talk about and how do you make idle chit chat if you don't ask people questions when you meet them. If everything is none of our business and we should not be asking such things how do you get to know someone? What is acceptable conversation? I get not asking probing questions about why haven't you got children etc but surely basic questions to start a conversation are acceptable. I'm not married but wouldn't be bothered by anyone asking if I was.

KimberleyClark · 29/05/2023 10:13

What are you supposed to talk about and how do you make idle chit chat if you don't ask people questions when you meet them.

Maybe try “Did you have far to come/do you live near here/how do you know host(ess) and see where you go from there? Why is “are you married/do you have kids” the first thing you need to know?

LinMortisanass · 29/05/2023 10:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

sammylady37 · 29/05/2023 10:19

The op nicely demonstrates how a significant proportion of people live such restricted lives that they cannot fathom how others make different life choices to them, and cannot understand that there are always people who, for whatever reason, will take the road less travelled.

PaigeMatthews · 29/05/2023 10:20

KimberleyClark · 29/05/2023 10:13

What are you supposed to talk about and how do you make idle chit chat if you don't ask people questions when you meet them.

Maybe try “Did you have far to come/do you live near here/how do you know host(ess) and see where you go from there? Why is “are you married/do you have kids” the first thing you need to know?

Because that is how we measure whether a woman's life is sad or not…

Newname2323 · 29/05/2023 10:26

Believe it or not not all women need a man and kids to be happy.

Imeldatryagain · 29/05/2023 10:32

Urgh. I absolutely hate it when I meet someone at an event and among their top three questions is, 'do you have children?' Or 'are you married?' It's almost as though they're looking for a 'box' to put me into, E.g the marriedwithkids box or lonelysingleton box.

Surprisingly there's more than two 'boxes' (shocker, I know!) and some people live absolutely lovely lives without partners and children and others are married with kids and wish they weren't. And there's plenty of others who are one or the other or something completely different and that's all part of the variety of life. I'm not defined by the number of relationships I've had or the number of children I've given birth to. It's not an appropriate question to ask someone straight off the bat.

Stripedbag101 · 29/05/2023 10:38

Frenulumetta · 29/05/2023 10:02

What are you supposed to talk about and how do you make idle chit chat if you don't ask people questions when you meet them. If everything is none of our business and we should not be asking such things how do you get to know someone? What is acceptable conversation? I get not asking probing questions about why haven't you got children etc but surely basic questions to start a conversation are acceptable. I'm not married but wouldn't be bothered by anyone asking if I was.

Surely you can make conversation that doesn’t involve children and marital status? I never ask those questions (because it’s not the first thing I need to know about someone) and I have loads of brilliant conversations.

do you have to make small talk at work - how do you cope?

I had lunch for two hours with recently with three people I don’t know but at sitting on a pane with - we agreed no work talk and we discussed travel, experiences of Covid, tv shows, pets, sports, hobbies, house renovations, our schooling.

a few things about family and children came up organically during this conversations but no one asked the basic are you married and do you have kids question.

it is possible - I just think some people are very bad conversationalists and can’t imagine talking about anything else!!!!!

i recently went to dinner with a friend and she brought another group of women who labelled themselves ‘the ballet mums’. The first question in asked me was did I have kids , I said no and then she turned and talked to someone else😂. Had she had a normal conversation with me she would have discovered I am on the board of governors at her child’s school, and I have just finished a big house renovation project - she is about to start one. We would have had kids to discuss but because I said I have no kids she didn’t think I was relevant or interesting to talk to!!!!

Stripedbag101 · 29/05/2023 10:40

lots to discuss not kids to discuss!

Catsmere · 29/05/2023 11:20

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

You reckon being raped, abused in any number of ways, finding out the man you thought loved you is a serial adulterer or worse, aren’t worse (sadder doesn’t cover it) than that? Reminds me if someone who told me I’ve only seen the worst of men. No, if I had I’d be dead.

Frenulumetta · 29/05/2023 13:46

I don't know I think sometimes people read far too much into things. I think most people don't give a toss if you are married unmarried and whether or not you have kids or why I truly think it is a normal part of a conversation they are (mostly) not going to judge you for your answers. If you talk about your schooling as someone said above that's being just as nosy surely are you not allowed to ask about their job or career either as its none of our business and judgy. Think people need to calm down and stop thinking everyone is a judge

Stripedbag101 · 29/05/2023 14:10

I suppose we all want different things out of small talk and conversation. Without exception I have found that people who ask this question are dull and have very little to talk about. Generally partners and kids will work their way into a conversation -for example - my favourite city is New York - in fact I honeymooned there. I am watching a great series on Netflix - but the content is adult so I have to wait until the kids are in bed.

it doesn’t bother me - I just groan inwardly when someone’s opener get to know you is to ask if I am married or have kids. Because usually they just want to talk about their husband and kids. Men rarely ask this question - or get asked it!

TheHandmaiden · 29/05/2023 14:13

It's because the asker has done very little with their life and has limited social experience outside of married life.

There's an interesting thread about commenting on people's food choices on MN here and again you have dumb people saying it's fine to be crass enough to go "urgh your food choice is odd".

It's like there is a bit of society with no filter or their parents didn't give them any manners

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 29/05/2023 14:21

continentallentil · 28/05/2023 22:43

@Slimmer2018

Any amount of time on here would tell you it’s a very general, mostly female site, with a certain degree of lean to parenting but that parenting is not the main topic on many threads.

The reason women who don’t have kids (and some men!!!) are on here is because there isn’t anything else like it. Again not hard to figure out.

The brand is quite well established so no, I don’t think it’s going to change its name.

I need more sleep. I read your post as implying that there was a degree of lean-to parenting, and was wondering how people could parent in a lean-to, or whether this was some new term for step parenting or something...

Send coffee.

GeriKellmansUpdo · 29/05/2023 14:39

Other people's kids and husband are so boring. And I say this as someone who has both.

Callyem · 29/05/2023 14:43

Frenulumetta · 29/05/2023 13:46

I don't know I think sometimes people read far too much into things. I think most people don't give a toss if you are married unmarried and whether or not you have kids or why I truly think it is a normal part of a conversation they are (mostly) not going to judge you for your answers. If you talk about your schooling as someone said above that's being just as nosy surely are you not allowed to ask about their job or career either as its none of our business and judgy. Think people need to calm down and stop thinking everyone is a judge

Except the OP literally made a judgement and then came on here to discuss it!

Mountainpika · 29/05/2023 14:48

Haven't read all through.
I would never, ever ask anyone if they are married or have children. Never know what the background might be.
If I'm talking to someone I've not met before, I might ask if they have family in the area.
I think that's a reasonable approach - it could be, yes a husband, 5 kids, 4 cousins and their children. Or, no, my brother lived in the wilds of Scotland. Or a simple no. Or yes, my great aunt lives just along the road from me.

Is that an acceptable social question?

LlamaFace19 · 29/05/2023 14:57

I have a friend similar to this. Slightly different in that she has had sex but it was always ONSs or FWBs. She's never had a romantic relationship and no DC. She's very happy! Has absolutely no desire for romance or children and loves that she only has to worry about and support herself.

SashaPearce · 29/05/2023 15:27

CoreyTaylorsSoggyTshirt · 28/05/2023 12:11

I find it sadder that people find it acceptable to ask about marriage and kids when the person hasn't mentioned either.

I find it sad that she felt so embarrassed she felt as though she had to explain.

I find it sad that a child free single woman in her 30s is pitied by some random she has never met before.

Maybe this is your cue to stop asking unprompted personal questions.

Seconding all of this.

I feel deeply sad for people whose life experience and social circle is so narrow that they seem genuinely surprised that marriage and kids is not everybody’s life. There’s a whole world out there - maybe go and take a look at it some day.