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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find this deeply unusual and sad?

455 replies

ToTheMax0 · 28/05/2023 12:04

Met a 39 Yr old lady the other day at a small gathering at my neighbours.
I asked if she was married with kids and she looked embarrassed and said no to neither. Later on in the evening, she admitted she had never kissed a man or dated, nothing like that. Not assexual, just nothing has ever led her to a relationship and she's scared to date online but also, not entirely interested. She went to mixed schools but was teased for being ugly and then onto an almost all female college and university. Was never into the pub and club scene as a young woman either. Just find it sad for her.

OP posts:
Stripedbag101 · 28/05/2023 16:01

FiddleLeaf · 28/05/2023 15:56

Same here. It’s a common question,

I think it’s quite a dated question - people quiz other people to find out their ‘status’ in life.

in certain circles women Get asked if they are married, if they have children and what their husband does for a living.

Men get asked what they do for work, where they went to school and what sports they follow.

people ask about the information they value. It makes for quite dull conversation.

I was once asked by an older gentleman if I have to work or if I was married😂.

AnnaM21 · 28/05/2023 16:03

Regardless of your social chit chat don’t be so narrow minded and you never know what goes on in people’s lives none of your business end of

DollyParkin · 28/05/2023 16:11

She doesn’t need your pity. FFS having children and being married is not the be all and end all. Neither is a particularly extraordinary achievement.

KimberleyClark · 28/05/2023 16:11

Yerroblemom1923 · 28/05/2023 14:54

Right so we can't talk about marriage/ partners.
We can't talk about children.
We can't talk about work/jobs.
So that just leaves pets, hobbies, books, music, TV and films.... (but their pet might have just died or they are renting a pet-free house, or they are hobby-free, or can't read.....)
Please could we have a comprehensive list of acceptable conversation starters? Thank you.

No one has said you can’t talk about marriage or children. Just that it is rude to ask a stranger about them, unless you have heard some definite indications that they are married/have children.

Nanny0gg · 28/05/2023 16:19

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 28/05/2023 12:53

If I was at a party and a stranger/neighbour asked those questions I'd think they were mentally ill/ socially abnormal and rapidly excuse myself from their company. Damn sure I would not discuss my lifetime sexual and social experience and entire education history .

Blimey 😬 I find that such a massive overreaction.

Pretty much every single time I've been in the "getting to know you" stage of a conversation or friendship, the topic of partners and children has come up.

This happens at work, in social settings, at clubs and gatherings - it's totally standard in my world.

Mine too.

Because the person in question has mentioned husband/partner/kids/grandkids themselves.

Not because I asked

mrlistersgelfbride · 28/05/2023 16:20

It's pretty narrow minded and insensitive of you to pity her. Just because you find it unusual and don't understand not being married or having children, doesn't mean it can't be a happy way of life.
You only have to read Mumsnet to see that being married and having kids is no picnic.

newyearsresolurion · 28/05/2023 16:20

Men are not the best thing in life really . She's lucky

SweetBirdsong · 28/05/2023 16:20

BreviloquentBastard · 28/05/2023 15:56

Given the hundreds of posts a week on this very website made by women who are married with kids and absolutely fucking miserable I don't think either thing is a particularly reliable yardstick for measuring happiness.

All the single childfree women I know are very happy to be that way, and good for them. You don't need a man or children to be happy, and I'd argue that they often do the opposite. There's a reason single childless women live longer.

@BreviloquentBastard

I agree that single and childfree women can live (and DO live) fruitful happy lives. But so do many married women, (with children - or without even.)

So let's not let this thread descend into a married-women-with-children bashing exercise, with this 'all single women are blissfully happy - and all married women are miserable handmaids' mindset, that comes up on this forum a lot!

It's tedious, and inaccurate, and is as rude and offensive as people saying 'all single childfree women are sad sacks.'

Many women are very happily married. You just hear a lot more from the unhappy ones, because the happy/content ones don't post to say how happy they are. Basically they won't usually post if nothing is wrong. You are only seeing bad posts from a small minority of unhappily married women on here, and not the multiple 1000s who are happy.

Stating being married will make you the opposite of happy and content and women are much happier single, makes you no better than the OP. So let's not go down THAT road!

HadleyVaughn · 28/05/2023 16:22

Yerroblemom1923 · Today 14:54

Right so we can't talk about marriage/ partners.
We can't talk about children.
We can't talk about work/jobs.
So that just leaves pets, hobbies, books, music, TV and films.... (but their pet might have just died or they are renting a pet-free house, or they are hobby-free, or can't read.....)
Please could we have a comprehensive list of acceptable conversation starters? Thank you.

What a load of deliberately blinkered rubbish. As @KimberleyClark says no one is saying these topics are things you can't talk about.

The issues is asking outdated questions that reveal a skewed view of what people should be doing that touch on topics many people find sensitive, intrustive or judgmental (children v childfree, working v stay at home mom, death, religion, sex)

From your own perspective you are free to say what you like. You can talk about your own marriage, children, jobs whatever you like. You can actually start a conversation talking about your own experience you don't have to start by asking a question at all! A lot of conversation isn't based on question, answer, question answer because that's an interview.

Besides if you want to ask a question there are lots of topics that are interesting and not intrusive that are too long to list! If you need a list of acceptable conversation starters to be provided for you that are not dated, or reveal your own bigoted view of life, then you have a serious social problem!

Rosesarered1234 · 28/05/2023 16:29

CoreyTaylorsSoggyTshirt · 28/05/2023 12:25

Come on now, most will ask if a woman is married or has kids

No.

I NEVER ask if someone has kids, do you know what a position that puts a bereaved parent in? They either have to say no and deny their child existed, or explain their trauma. It's a rude and intrusive question.

Nor would I ask of someone was married or with someone, if I'm getting to know a person their relationship status is probably one of the least interesting things about them. Again, you don't know what type of situation that person is in.

Absolutely spot on!

porridgeisbae · 28/05/2023 16:37

Just registered the thread title more. Grin I can only hope this is a wind up.

varsitychic · 28/05/2023 16:52

The OP won't be back

Lifeomars · 28/05/2023 16:55

Anewuser · 28/05/2023 12:13

That’s because you can’t imagine a life with a husband and children.

It’s not the be all and end all.

indeed, I sometimes wonder if I would do the marriage and kids bit if I had my life again.

thecatsthecats · 28/05/2023 16:57

Come on now, most will ask if a woman is married or has kids, it's just social chit chat.

Never asked myself. Can't say that most people have asked me either.

And even if most people did, most people can still be rude and wrong.

WonderingWanda · 28/05/2023 17:02

@SweetBirdsong I hate people like that, nosey and judgemental all in one!

Thepeopleversuswork · 28/05/2023 17:13

I feel total contempt for people who think this is an acceptable question to ask at a first meeting.

a) It assumes that marriage and children are by default the only things which are noteworthy in a woman’s life
b) It’s crashingly crass and rude and totally socially inept
c) It’s incredibly lacking in sensitivity. There are so many reasons why this might be a sensitive issue. If you really can’t see this you shouldn’t be allowed out
d) It’s stunningly unimaginative. Can’t you think of anything more interesting to say?

Just astounding that people still think this is OK in 2023

Mari9999 · 28/05/2023 17:15

OP, it is amazing that someone would disclose this amount and type of personal information to someone in a chance meeting. Did you spend all of your time with this woman at this event? Whatever issues may or may not have occurred in this woman's life , failure to disclose is not a problem for her.

BedZwift · 28/05/2023 17:20

Not sure which one I’d rather be, the single childless woman, or the kind of person who condescendingly posts someone else’s private stuff on a public forum. Tough one that

BelieveThemtheFirstTime · 28/05/2023 17:26

My sister is a similar age to the woman at the BBQ and is currently going through a 3rd round of IVF. I really feel for her as I can’t imagine the amount of intrusive questions her and her DP receive.

I had our 1st DC in my early 20’s and then had a big gap between our 1st & 2nd DC. The amount of people that had the front to ask me why we wanted to start all over again (and still do), or even worst - a few random strangers who I had just met asking if my DC all have the same Father! Some people are just wild.

At a family funeral, our adult DD was asked when she would be having babies. She was in her early 20’s, had only finished Uni the year before and this nosey person didn’t have an inkling about DD’s relationship status. DD was open mouthed at that question.
I also encountered similar from people who queried when we would be having more children after DC1 even though these people knew that I was at Uni with a young child in tow and also working PT.

I was in my very early 30’s at a Family Planning Clinic appointment, having a pregnancy test and the Nurse told me off for leaving it too late to get pregnant. I just laughed and looked at her like she was crazy.
We had our 3rd and last DC when I was 39, so it is possible for some (if that’s what they want).

When I was 6/7 months pregnant with DC2, a previous Manager (male) asked me how long I was going to BF for! I told him 10 years! I’d like to share numerous other inappropriate and very clumsy faux pax made by him, but I won’t as I’d surely out myself on MN.

The following is not the same as being asked about marriage and children, but I’ll share it anyway because it’s linked to those of us who have had the misfortune of experiencing difficulties conceiving and/or carrying successful pregnancies to term:
Over a decade ago and before DC2, I’d had an antenatal appointment the day before which had not gone well. I was leaving a supermarket when the security guard smiled and shouted at me “Smile love, it won’t ever happen”. I stopped, walked back and told him that I was awaiting a miscarriage during the next day or so, and also added a few other choice words. His face dropped and his colleague, grabbed him by the arm and pulled him aside. I never saw him at that supermarket again. I’m sure he now thinks twice before shouting out that line to random women.
A previous older and wise male colleague had schooled me years before explaining that men who say this to women are sexist, as they would never say this to other men.

It’s all totally inappropriate, very rude and completely unnecessary. These rude people are literally asking strangers personal questions about their reproductive system, choices and their sex lives!

It also annoys me when people ask us how much we earn and how much we paid for our house, cars, holidays, etc. I’ll never understand why some people think other people’s finances are any any of their bloody business when it does not affect them!? They’re just too damn nosy.
I don’t give a shit if I offend people that have offended me, so I just tell them that we’re private people and we don’t discuss our personal business. In regard to questions about our house and our cars, I usually just laugh and ignore the question. If they continue to probe, I tell them to look it up on the internet if they really need to know and that tends to shut them up.
We’ve even had to tell our DC to trot out this standard response, as it seems nosey people have asked their DC to ask our DC how much we earn.

Callyem · 28/05/2023 17:31

Its 2023, surely we have moved on from defining people by their marital status?

Its the kind of question only asked by the elderly relations at your distant cousin's wedding. Reminiscent of Bridget Jones' smug marrieds. By your own admission, she looked embarrassed. You made her feel uncomfortable. Stop it!

LaPerduta · 28/05/2023 17:32

ToTheMax0 · 28/05/2023 12:20

Come on now, most will ask if a woman is married or has kids, it's just social chit chat.
The latter part of the conversation came about late in the evening when we were chatting more. She has never wanted kids so not an issue there, didn't seem sad particularly but do get the hint she is lonely. I know relationships are really tough at times but the connection and love is worth it. I was just surprised as I have never met anyone in her position before. That's all.

You've never met a woman in her late 30s who is single and doesn't have children??

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 28/05/2023 17:35

Yerroblemom1923 · 28/05/2023 14:58

@ConvallariaMuguet so dull as dishwater convo is allowed....jeez don't think I'll be on the bbq scene this summer🙄

Probably for the best.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 28/05/2023 17:39

AllyCart already said it.

I'm really happy to see so many posters pulling the OP up on her complete lack of social skills thinking that it's ok to ask these questions. Women are not defined by their relationships and/or whether they have children or not.

Thepeopleversuswork · 28/05/2023 17:53

@SweetBirdsong

So let's not let this thread descend into a married-women-with-children bashing exercise, with this 'all single women are blissfully happy - and all married women are miserable handmaids' mindset, that comes up on this forum a lot!

You’re missing the context. The entire point of this thread was to “pity” (read stealth mock) a woman about whom the OP knows very little other than the fact she hasn’t got children and has not had a relationship

Literally no one is “bashing” women with marriages and children. Some of us have pointed out that the problem with the OP’s outlook (apart from her question being breathtakingly rude) is that it takes as read that a woman’s marital status and reproductive history is the most interesting and relevant thing about her and that it should be in the public domain within minutes of meeting for general scrutiny.

And that having established the facts about this woman she goes off to tattle about her on the internet.

Comedycook · 28/05/2023 17:59

I think it's incredibly sad. Being single and not having children are perfectly valid choices...but that's not what we're talking about. To go through your life without ever having had a romantic love or relationship when you want one sounds awful. A life without love is like a year without summer, as they say.