To say it’s “cliquey” not “clicky”

[Fortunesmiles]

Just that, really. I keep seeing things like “the parents at school are very clicky” - no! They form cliques, not clicks. Not normally one to comment on this stuff, but that one really makes me cringe!

@Pemba , @Kingdedede is more or less correct about the rhyming. In Spanish it is

Ee bee tha.

Or, as @Kingdedede says, use the ‘z’ sound as Latin Americans and some Spaniards do

Yes, ee-bee-tha not eye-bee-tha.

That's the right way to say it. Who says different?

I have not studied Spanish. Pps who know more than me have said its an 'ee' sound at the beginning, not just a short 'i' to rhyme with 'bib'. Perhaps Spanish doesn't have the short I sound?

I listen to a Spanish (Catalan actually) folk group who sing sea shanties, some in English. Their English is good but I've noticed they get some vowel sounds a bit wrong, eg instead of 'listen' they will sing 'leesen'.

See I agree with this!

I could never say "chorizo" with a proper Spanish pronunciation, so I'd rather just murder it completely and say "choritzo".

There are lots of sounds within foreign languages that Brits are going to struggle with because we're not brung up to talk like that. That's fine, and an Anglicised version will therefore be invented where needed.

On the other hand, words like "clique" / "niche" / "café" which are no harder to pronounce than English words, should absolutely be said properly.

On route really irritates me!

Better stop at two versions. This is all getting rather cringe-making (I'm using the term that was common before the Beano coined cringeworthy in 1972. After all, I wouldn't want to upset someone who complains about the "dumbing down" of the English language).

Spanish i is between the English vowel sounds in shit and sheet. It's hard for Spanish speakers to get those vowels right, just as it's hard for English speakers to pronounce Spanish vowels correctly.

You've met one of my exes. He also raged at people for not saying HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEERRRRRRRRAYCHHHHHHHHH because it was 'pig igrent' to not put the HHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR in the start and it was racialist (another of his words, usually preceded by, you know me, I'm not being racialist, but...) towards the English to pronounce words from any other language in anything other than a deliberate Mockney bark.

Was born in Chelsea. Not RC, no Irish or northern ancestry, just decided that HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHis way of speaking showed he was smart. He might have also believed it was charming to say bisketti instead of spaghetti and herbs were pronounced 'that fucking rabbit shit' I'd booked the patio man by then.

He would insist that 'that poncey French shit you drink' was called 'Veevervenuer Clickot', too. And the bit where his Mum put a vase of flowers was called a nitchee.

In 'Rioja', said the Spanish way, the 'j' sounds like the ch in the Scottish 'loch', when it is said the Scottish way, which involves the throat. Many English people say 'loch' the same as 'lock', perhaps because they can't do the sound, or don't want to for some reason.

I come from a hypermobile family we are definitely a click NOT a clique

When I say Loch properly I tend to get a bit spitty so I mispronounce it deliberately I honestly can't figure out what I do wrong especially as I suffer from drymouth syndrome 😅

They're pronouncing it wrong. The way to say clique is kleek. It's not 'foreign' to say it like that, it's correct.

Exactly. it's not as if we don't have words in English where 'ique' is pronounced 'eek' - pique, antique, unique, oblique. We don't pronounce them with an 'ick' sound, and it isn't foreign to pronounce them properly.

@macrowave has the best explanation of the pronunciation of the first’I’ in Ibiza. The Spanish ‘i’ doesn’t quite correlate with an English vowel.

Perhaps this is what @CharlottenBurger is also saying? I have heard regional variations in Spain, with a short-ish ‘i’ or a long-ish ‘e’. Never a long ‘i’.

Fascinating explanation about ‘Rioja’, @CharlottenBurger I think the ‘j’ as ‘ch’ rather than ‘h’ is regional but this makes a great deal of sense.

I don't like to see people writing that something 'peeks' or 'peaks' their interest or curiosity, but at least they've got the pronunciation right.

Your way makes sense to me, @mumlikeaboss !

I bet the people saying they wouldn't dream of saying paella incorrectly don't call the animal a yama.

No. I don't, and I teach Spanish (and French and German). Imo it's a bit ridiculous to expect a consensus or even much consistency on the pronunciation of foreign words. It's complicated. Quite apart from the minefield of how to pronounce them right, but not right enough to sound pretentious, it's all partly governed by how long the word has been in circulation in the UK, how common it is, what kind of people tend to use it, whether it contains sounds which don't quite exist in English, and in what context it's likely to crop up. Lahma is the standard English pronunciation of 'llama'.

I was just wandering about that

Where?? Where were you going?

It’s Eye Bitza innit?

Getting technical here, the Spanish-language j before a vowel sound a, e, i, o, u is said a certain way that is really not present in English. It's called the jota. It involves making a raspy sound in the back of your throat. There are regional variations, e.g. in Central America and the Caribbean, it's 'soft', kind of like 'h' in English, but in the rest of Latin America and Spain itself, it's 'hard', like the 'ch' in 'loch'.

@Fairislefandango what does it mean to pronounce a word right, but not right enough to sound pretentious? Serious question. Is it what many native English speakers have managed with ‘paella’? That’s fine.

I have no problem with people Anglicising words. The Anglo version of the Castilian lisp, in the context of otherwise Anglo pronunciation of the word sets my teeth on edge. Do you see a point to it?

I have moderate Spanish and have had instructors from non-lisping regions of Spain. I am neither British nor Spanish.

Jalapeño?

I think it’s a speed thing a lot of the time. If you don’t have a particular sound in your everyday speech, then even if you can do it and aren’t for some reason embarrassed by it it’s likely quicker in speech to use a sound you use more frequently, especially as you are still well understood.

@Fairislefandango what does it mean to pronounce a word right, but not right enough to sound pretentious? Serious question.

I expect it means something slightly different to different people - that's part of the issue! As a linguist I have minor, but fairly frequent, internal struggles about it . If I'm ordering cheese at the deli counter, my inner linguist wants to go full-on French pronunciation with full accent, but the Cumbrian teenager behind the counter will probably be internally . Don't even get me started on ordering things that are grammatically incorrect, like 'paninos'. I realise this is a me problem though. I wouldn't judge anyone else for saying paninos. If anything I'm judging myself for not liking saying it