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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Figgygal · 24/05/2023 21:24

You've done nothing wrong
Those women are self serving prats with no empathy
You park wherever you need to lovely

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 21:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I am in the middle of a very difficult week caring for my disabled husband. If I wrote here what I think of you for trolling on this issue I would be banned from MN.

MrFlobby · 24/05/2023 21:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Tandora · 24/05/2023 21:32

Clymene · 24/05/2023 19:06

It is a lifestyle choice.

And telling a woman who is infertile and disabled that it's unacceptable for her to say that is what's rude.

Blue badge holders can park anywhere they like.

It’s not a “lifestyle choice” and it’s not rude to point that out to anyone , regardless of their circumstances.

Flopsythebunny · 24/05/2023 21:36

MrFlobby · 24/05/2023 19:55

@SouthCountryGirl i don’t think I’ve ever been to a car park where all disabled bags are occupied. Ever.

Why would you even notice unless you needed the spaces yourself?
I've been to 2 supermarkets today and all the blue badge spaces in both were full.
At the first one, all the p&c spaces were full as well as the bb spaces so I couldn't park. At the 2nd one, all the bb spaces were full so I parked in a p&c space.

identifyingasmrblobbytoday · 24/05/2023 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@MNHQ can you ban this cunt please?

identifyingasmrblobbytoday · 24/05/2023 21:37

Double ban for the word "weren't".

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 21:39

identifyingasmrblobbytoday · 24/05/2023 21:36

@MNHQ can you ban this cunt please?

I've reported them to MN too. Unfortunately I find MN are a bit all over the place when it comes to ableist comments. I've had some comments about my disabilities deleted and others which basically call me stupid because I'm partially sighted just left to stand. perhaps if MN were more consistent on their approach to ablists posts people like this poster wouldn't feel as free and easy to be arseholes

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 21:42

I have reported too. A while ago MN promised they would do better at dealing with posters like him/her, but ableism seems to be something that is tolerated by the mods.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 24/05/2023 21:44

parent and child spaces are helpful to keep her on the path to the shop instead of wandering across a car park.

Holding their hand is what most parents do.

TheAudie · 24/05/2023 21:45

nope nope nope. If there are no disabled spaces, you can park in p&c. They are just a courtesy

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 21:45

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 21:42

I have reported too. A while ago MN promised they would do better at dealing with posters like him/her, but ableism seems to be something that is tolerated by the mods.

It seems to depend on the moderator. There's a female moderator who is sensible with ableist posts. But there's a male moderator who never ever seems to delete an abelist post. I know if I get a response saying he is looking into it absolutely nothing will happen.

3AndStopping · 24/05/2023 21:46

@identifyingasmrblobbytoday wait but ‘weren't’ is a word isn’t it?

phoenixrosehere · 24/05/2023 21:50

I wouldn’t be upset tbh nor challenge someone who is disabled parking there when the bbs are full. Our oldest is autistic, and we’ve been waiting for a blue badge for 6 months now so P&C are a great option for us when they’re available and offered.

ChrisPPancake · 24/05/2023 21:56

Op not back yet?
Wouldn't have bothered responding if I'd realised it was a journo 🙄

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 21:58

ChrisPPancake · 24/05/2023 21:56

Op not back yet?
Wouldn't have bothered responding if I'd realised it was a journo 🙄

There are people on here literally admitting to trolling disabled people, why the hell should she come back to that?

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 21:58

Oh, god. Was it really a journo?

Speermint · 24/05/2023 22:03

P&C spaces are just courtesy spaces. Technically anyone can park in them. I often give lifts to elderly relatives who have mobility problems and I park in a P&C space. They need extra room and assistance to get out of the car and need to be close to the shops, but I don’t have a blue badge so I just use a P&C space. Nobody has ever said anything, and I’d be surprised if anyone begrudged an 85yo with mobility problems using a space that meets their needs.

I also used a P&C space when I was heavily pregnant and so huge that I couldn’t squeeze in/out of the driver’s door if there was another car parked next to me. A few times I got locked out of my car because someone parked in the empty space next to me and I was too big to squeeze between the cars. I can see how this would be a problem for obese people too. And I also used a P&C space when DH was temporarily a wheelchair user after a spinal operation - couldn’t get a blue badge because the disability wasn’t permanent but we still had need of a blue badge parking space.

It would be better if P&C spaces were labelled “accessible spaces” imo. Lots of people need a wider space for various reasons, not just parents.

Lizzt2007 · 24/05/2023 22:03

Sissynova · 24/05/2023 16:34

I wouldn’t have said anything to you but it is annoying when people park in P&C spaces.
I’m not going to know whether you usually qualify for a disabled space in a fleeting second in a carpark.
‘You should have thought about that before having a child’ is a really weird argument. I should have thought about what? Someone parking too close to me which means I can’t get my toddler in and out of the car seat?
Personally I think P&C spaces should be further back so there’s no desire for other people to use them.

The blue badge in the window might give you a clue.

GG1986 · 24/05/2023 22:07

Wow these women are vile, sorry you were spoken to like that! I would have no issue whatsoever with somebody disabled parking in a parent and child space! I use those spaces at the moment as I have a newborn and it's difficult to get the car seat out to put on the pram, but with my older child(7) if it was just us in the car we wouldn't necessarily park in a parent and child space as she can easily walk and get out of the car easily.

Lizzt2007 · 24/05/2023 22:12

Cocolatte24 · 24/05/2023 20:18

@wenfy parent and child pales are not courtesy parks and the only people using them should be parents with children in car seats.. not parents with teens and most definitely not people w/o children.

the space isn’t to make it easier to walk through a car park, it’s to provide enough room to open the door and access the child seat and set up the pram / baby carrier safely and not in the road.

nobody encourages people to use the spaces without children - you’re talking out of your arse. All Sainsburys near me have signs warning of an £85 misuse fine; they check for car seats and rightly so

There is no legal requirement to provide parent and child bays, they certainly are courtesy parking. Unlike disabled bays that have to be provided by law. The fact that Sainsbury's choose to issue fines is purely their choice and not a legal requirement.

candlesflamesandbrooms · 24/05/2023 22:15

Oh god I'm gonna get burnt at the stake for this one but

In my area the number of disabled spaces wayyy out numbers the parent and child spaces. Always tones of disabled spaces but what really gets on my nerves is older people using them (assuming because they don't have a blue badge) or don't qualify. I imagine some must be on the verge of qualifying or just don't want to apply but there are so many of them that actually it kinda annoys me because "they think won't use a disabled space but I will take up a parent and space as it's only a curtesy space"

The thing is most parents don't need the proximity to the store, we just need the space toddler and infant out of their unwelding and large car seats (are they purposely making them just more and more difficult to use or is it just me?)

Getting on a bus with small children in my area is legitimately hell, especially since I'm now totally out numbered.

Trains are the same and people glare at you when you go on a train with a small child.

Walking on the pavement with a pram is now a hazzard due to bikes hoping on and off the road randomly

It feels a bit like the world can be pretty hostile to women with small children (take small children to a restaurant) and either get eyeballed because they are making normal children noise or eyeballed if you give them a tablet, colouring books ect.
Society expects mums to work like they don't have children and look after their children like they don't work.

None of this is anything to do with you. Yes having children is a lifestyle choice and a privilege but it seems as a society we have moved away from a "it takes a village to raise a child" to a society of "you have no village, if you do it's more costly than your mortgage, and that same village is judging you by what seems to be standards no one could achieve as the standards vary person to person so if in doubt your doing it wrong"

Some of these issues I don't doubt you encountered my dear grandmother was disabled and terrified of cyclists after nearly being knocked over by one on pavement.

These people had no right to have a go at you. I certainly don't have a problem with a disabled person using a p and c space.
But if you can't already tell I think as a society we don't talk about maternal rage enough, that rage is often years worth of anger at being told not only are you doing it wrong but don't complain because parenting is a privilege and be a nice placid women. Bit of a oxymoron but it is what it is.

I think you encountered some maternal rage and of course you shouldn't have been spoken to like that there's no excuse.

But if your looking for why they did what they did, it's always worth looking at the reasons outside of a situation as to why someone might be angry. I doubt it was anything to do with you tbh. Just the grind and two people hitting out at the wrong person (because I doubt society is going to change any time soon).

I say this as someone who lost her first son and finds parenting a privilege and also recognises that that privilege can also be incredibly hard. Specially when you talk about it being hard, because people like to remind you how grateful you should be (and to basically shut up)You can be so v grateful for your children and also feel like your screaming into a void.

Lizzt2007 · 24/05/2023 22:16

Tandora · 24/05/2023 21:32

It’s not a “lifestyle choice” and it’s not rude to point that out to anyone , regardless of their circumstances.

Of course it's a lifestyle choice! You're not forced to have children, it's a choice you make!

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 22:47

Lizzt2007 · 24/05/2023 22:16

Of course it's a lifestyle choice! You're not forced to have children, it's a choice you make!

For some/most its a choice. But for some women its not a choice. Either through rape, abusive relationships, religious and family expectations, or an accidental pregancy and not being able to face an abortion.

None of this means its okay to be rude to disabled people of course. But that doesnt discount the fact that saying its a lifestyle choice is a bit of a flippant remark that ignores some womens reality.

1 in 4 women at a sexual health clinic reported reproductive coercion. That figure does include women who were coerced into an abortion, but it still indicates that there are a fair number if women who are not choosing a lifestyle choice, they are being coerced into having a child.

Famzonhol · 24/05/2023 22:50

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 22:47

For some/most its a choice. But for some women its not a choice. Either through rape, abusive relationships, religious and family expectations, or an accidental pregancy and not being able to face an abortion.

None of this means its okay to be rude to disabled people of course. But that doesnt discount the fact that saying its a lifestyle choice is a bit of a flippant remark that ignores some womens reality.

1 in 4 women at a sexual health clinic reported reproductive coercion. That figure does include women who were coerced into an abortion, but it still indicates that there are a fair number if women who are not choosing a lifestyle choice, they are being coerced into having a child.

Oh dear God.
A woman who clearly has mobility issues shouldn’t be shouted at by a woman with a child for taking “her” parking space.
Move your child, luv.