To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

Do they know how much assisted conception will cost them? Even using their own eggs it'll be £ thousands. Are they in good jobs?

I think if you go in with the knowledge that it's not a guarantee, why not?

Given that x is supposedly relieved to press pause I’m not sure they DO have that knowledge/understanding

I suspect not good enough, they are comfortable enough they could afford to start a family if natural conception is successful but I think the two that are considering it are punting on being better off in 4/5 years but with no real plan on how...

Completely agree - I asked about egg freezing when I was in my late thirties, and the experienced consultant steered me away because she said, she hadn't yet had anyone who had frozen their eggs actually getting a baby from them. Apparently most women freeze eggs far too late - really it needs to be done in your late teens/ early twenties - and don't freeze enough of them, and it's that combination which means failure and disappointment are usually the outcome. You don't know if an egg will fertilize until you try and fertilize it, so if there are issues with the eggs, this doesn't show up with egg freezing. This doesn't get mentioned.

And clinics never tell women that egg freezing means they HAVE to have an IVF process to use those eggs, which means more cost.

Obviously happy to be shouted down by scores of mnetters telling they froze 5 eggs at 38, and now at 52 have bouncing babies...

Well, they're not going to discuss the cons of their situation once it's made?

It would be like buying a new house, then talking about the things you didn't like as much about it.

I've never been through a medical procedure that didn't give a rundown of the risks and benefits. They know. They're just expressing it in a casual way that focuses on their main feeling.

I think that many young people don't realise that it can be quite difficult to conceive and carry to full term after your teens and twenties.
Many people think that IVF will be plain sailing, but I can think of couples who had several rounds and no baby.

YABVU it's bloody hard to meet the right person, get married, have kids, etc, and freezing eggs sounds proactive to me. People went on at me so much about how 'you girls in your 20s will run out of time, focusing on your careers'! Etc. As if it were that bloody easy. So annoying.

I'd rather have frozen my eggs at 20 something than be told that I need donor eggs at 38+. It's a choice that should be discussed more often.

This is a good way to look at it. And understandable. Sadly though they are then perpetuating the narrative that you can in fact press pause and have babies just as easily at 45 as you can at 25...

Absolutely I agree if you’re not in a position to have kids yet, great to have options with full knowledge - but these friends are wanting to do it essentially to buy more youthful fun time with current (hopefully) life partners!

Agreed, more discussion needed so people know pros and cons LONG before making the decision. My issue isn’t with egg freezing in and of itself (science is amazing), more with the flippant ‘I’ll just do it later with no issues if I freeze my eggs’ attitude I seem to be encountering. As with any method of ttc you don’t know of issues often until you try iyswim so the narrative of it being a simple pressing pause isn’t helping anyone and more discussion/ realistic information would be a huge benefit to many!

What you say really hits home. I always assumed I'd be super fertile as my parents were. I'm fit healthy, no drugs, never smoked or no STIs.etc. But when my husband and I wanted a baby when I was 30 it didn't happen for us. I'm 32 and still doing IVF because it turns out I have low AMH and severely diminished egg reserve. :( now whenever my friends talk about wanting kids when they're 40, I tell them to go get a fertility MOT, it's only about £250 for blood tests and scans. I wish I had known in my early twenties I would have frozen my eggs and maybe have a baby by now.

@DespairingALittle , I think a lot of couples leave it until the woman is in her mid-thirties before making a conscious effort to have a baby.
We are now conditioned to not be surprised by someone having her first baby in her 40s.

I can think of women who had perfectly healthy babies, conceived naturally, in their 40s, but they are fewer than the numbers who struggled or failed to have a baby via IVF.

Do you really think that anyone considering freezing eggs is going into it lightly?

It's a gruelling process.

They aren't going to sit and discuss absolutely every aspect and reason with you, especially as you seem to think your friends are stupid and you're the only person who knows the full extent of the process and odds, that attitude probably comes across irl too.

The truth is that fertilised embryos freeze better than eggs.

The friend who made that comment about 'pressing pause' was not the same person who already went ahead and froze her eggs. The person who froze her eggs probably is more aware of the situation given that they accessed medical professionals who would have given her information.

I think you're right that a lot of people assume they can just have a baby when they're older without being aware of how much of a struggle it can be.

But tbh it's normal to not be fully aware of all the information about something that someone hasn't experienced for themselves, whatever the topic.

Lightly no, naively yes. They may find they don’t go through with it once they understand the reality - or worse be very disappointed by the outcome if they do. I haven’t shared this view with either friend, it’s their lives! I tend to listen then gently move the conversation on without giving an opinion either way. Overall I would like to see my friends happy. They want kids, just not yet so they can extend their twenties essentially and I’ll be sad to see them if ttc or egg freezing doesn’t work for them. I certainly won’t be sat there saying I told you so!

To be honest I’m far more concerned about the myth that fertility drops off a cliff at 35. I think this is what is fuelling all the egg freezing!

The statistics show that 1 in 2 women aged 41 will conceive without IVF. I think if you asked the average young woman what she thought the chances were of conceiving naturally at 40/41, she would say 1-5%. I certainly used to think that.

I think there needs to be better education about fertility all round, not just on the efficacy of egg freezing.

Yet every woman I know who has had children was 30+…

In fact, you don’t need my anecdata, isn’t the average age for first time mums over 30 now?

I think a lot of people are just ignorant about these issues in general.

I had recurrent miscarriages, and the number of people who just blithely told me to “get IVF!” was astonishing (IVF has a higher miscarriage rate than natural conception).

When I eventually became too old for a successful second pregnancy, again lots of people told me to “just have IVF” - apparently unaware that it won’t work if you don’t have decent egg reserves (they were not talking about donor conception).

It’s like the “just adopt!” crew - very quick to suggest completely unsuitable solutions.

I'm older than you, most of my friends are 32-36. Most of them do not have children yet and all assume it will 'just happen' some time. Now don't get me wrong I hear about how shite dating is and I don't want to be the 'smug' married friend who met DH at 22 so mostly keep my mouth shut.

But it took 4 years for me to have a baby. I wouldn't fancy starting to try at 40 thinking 1 month of no contraceptive and I'd be pregnant.

YANBU. We’re marrying this year and only early/mid twenties, on one hand it would be lovely to enjoy more couple time but on the other hand I don’t want to be glib about things and know that biologically now is absolutely the time so we’ll crack on after getting married. 20s is prime fertility years and imo if you want kids and you’re in a position to in a stable home with good income and relationship, you should crack on, be it 22 or 28.

YANBU. I find some of the media/celebrity type reporting on this stuff irresponsible, quoting celebrities like Rita Ora saying she’s frozen her eggs and therefore feels safe, without necessarily accompanying it with info on how much it costs, the invasive procedures involved, the statistical likelihood of it working, etc.

Having said that, I remember how annoyed I used to be by the doom and gloom articles published by the likes of Robert Winston in the Evening Standard a while back, making it sound like no woman over 35 could ever have a baby. Which anecdotally, among my cohort, has not proved to be the case. I think there’s a journalistic art to giving the facts in a helpful way without making it seem like you’re haranguing women.

Does anyone know the stats generally though? Although 20s is best biologically, I thought there was very minimal difference between 29 and 33 statistics wise? Happy to be corrected. Thought fertility only declines at pace after 35