To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

Can I ask OP if you have kids and if so how old was you when you had them?

You seem to have a bug bear with them wanting “to extend their twenties” or “youthful fun” as you’ve called it and I’m wondering if you’re a little bit resentful they get to do this and you haven’t?

I might be way off the mark but you’ve repeated the same comment a few times.

Egg freezing in your twenties isn't a panacea, but it's more realistic than the previous generation's widely held assumptions that if they had trouble conceiving in their late thirties or early forties IVF would be a miracle cure. A lot of men do still think that but surely it's better for women to be a bit more clued up on the realities of ageing eggs.

Freezing eggs in your 20s on the off chance that you’ll have fertility issues in your 30s so you have a young person’s eggs to do IVF with (only if needed) sounds like a good plan to me and one that would save a lot of people a lot of pain.

Now in my 40s I am amazed looking back at how many women have their youths ruined with pregnancy anxiety. You can have a baby at 42 and (actually) it's not that unusual any more. You can also be infertile at 27.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

Hmmm, there are many huge advantages to having children in one's 20's. Only one of which is better fertility. The 2 biggest ones for me are: Firstly not ending up in a "sandwich generation" caring for aging parents and young children simultaneously. Secondly having a proper crack at your career in your 40's, with a good 20 years of full-time work to build pension contributions before retirement. There are others but these are the main 2 for me.

Well, but that assumes that you're financially set up to have children in your 20s. Which few women are. Which leads inexorably to the need to rely on a partner, usually a bloke, to support you. Which is extremely problematic.

There is definitely a decline in fertility from late 20s/early 30s onwards. That's a scientific fact. But it's a fact which is greyer than people sometimes suggest and which is massively amplified in these sorts of discussions to make women anxious about having children. And while I do think we should be open with women about this and acknowledge the risk, I sometimes think some of the rhetoric about this is hysterical (no pun intended) and quite unhelpful. It's by no means a given that your ovaries will shrivel overnight as soon as you hit 30. Plenty of women remain fertile well into their 30s. It's not as binary as people make it sound.

I think the discussion needs to be framed as a trade-off of risk. There's the risk that if you leave it too late you won't be able to conceive. But there's also the risk that you will have children early, not develop a career or job, struggle to find one after nearly 20 years of not working, handicap your ability to build financial independence and become dependent, leaving you in a situation where, once your children are old enough, you are incapable of supporting yourself. I know which worries me more for my daughter.

This is an interesting observation.

In a way it is true - most money you earn is not for you but for them. Free time ditto. And most decisions you make is around them.

but - as you say, when they grow up - a lot more choice comes back into your life.

My parents had a really nice time of it when we were "finished". As did their siblings. More money, more freedom and all tied with more time as they retired.

These threads are 9/10 started by someone who has already had a baby judging the choices of those who haven't 🙄

Who realises any future costs. If we did no one would have children!

Popped out and come home to find lots of interesting viewpoints - and that’s why I’m here as I know not everyone’s circle is the same!

Just would like to stress that I don’t think all women should be having babies as young as possible just because - we live in a free society where it’s totally valid to be child free and to wait if you aren’t sure etc! But if you KNOW you want children and are already in a stable relationship & job etc I generally think it’s naive to put it off/ freeze eggs as you just can’t know until you ttc. And this is the situation my pals are in and I worry for them down the line.

I think in general better education around fertility would be beneficial and I do also appreciate the pros and cons of early vs. Late parenthood. But again it’s the naivety/ lack of understanding I worry about then possibly seeing friends and peers struggle!

also yes as some pps have mentioned, older celebs having babies via ivf or surrogacy in secret doesn't help when young women are trying to make these decisions as it’s a warped view of the potential reality!

I think women have always have always had miscarriages. Many would not even have known they were pregnant.

Now though, with the control we have through the pill, pregancy is by and large deliberate. Each one counts. The awareness of each pregnancy is elevated.

Well, it's entirely up to them. If they're going to go to the trouble of freezing eggs, I would hope that they've also undertaken all the necessary research, understand the risks and actually what they're signing up for.

Caveat emptor really.

There's never a 'right time' to have children, if that's what you want, their existence will necessitate a change in your life. Leaving aside any ethical questions of the fertility industry. If young women are being sold this as an opportunity to park any difficult decisions it is entirely incumbent upon them to practice due diligence on what is a fairly momentous decision.

I think a lot of women aren't in a position to TTC at 29. Many of them aren't in a long term relationship yet, or are still living in a rented shared house.

Freezing your eggs at 29 is a sensible idea, even if there's no guarantee that it will work.

Much more forward thinking (and realistic) than freezing your eggs at 40, and I know at least two women who have done that.

Love that counterpoint.

Agree it’s a trade off (and should be an informed one, which I worry it’s not for many) but who said you cannot work and have children? 20 years of not working is a bit extreme. Many go back to work once kids are in school, large proportions before that even.

well sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.That doctor may have been wrong You need to look at stats.Perhaps there should not be this gloomy 'oh youll leave it too late' attitude around as many many women do conceive naturally up to their mid forties.Are these young women supposed to give up their jobs and get pregnant out of fear? Maybe more women arestruggling because of diet and pollution and stress not their age.Perhaps on some level the women do not actually want kids but think it is a tick box they must fill or fail to be accepted by society.How about encouraging more adoption even though it is hard or maybe making adoption easier? Thinking about the kids that are here and maybe fostering.Perhaps more men and women being honest about that face that they want a kid but dont like their partner much and getting rid of the house, husband, dog mentality.
So many marriages fail because either the man or the woman actually hates parenting and marriage and the whole capitalist family unit but is afraid to say so.
Actually we do need to talk about over population.

I was always on the fence say 50/50 re having kids and after being brought up by my divorced single DM in 70s/80s when divorce was still very much stigmatised I vowed not to be a single mother either. When I finally got to the age of 35 and did actually freeze some eggs I then realised how hard it’d be both financially and emotionally to go ahead as a single mother so decided not to do this.

I’vs known 2 friends/ex colleagues either have kids via egg freezing and sperm donation or just naturally no eggs frozen and sperm donation. They both had miscarriages before conceiving their children.

My SIL (DB’s DW) assumed she’d get pregnant but ended up having ivf at 35 as there’s an issue with DB’s sperm. They froze embryos but had struggled and a miscarriage but she’s finally pregnant just before she turned 40 with DC too. I don’t think she’d like to try again as ivf is horrendous.

There should be more talk generally around fertility and the options available as I know a couple of SIL’s friends both due to turn 41 this year, both would like children, one with no job but a younger boyfriend and the other with no boyfriend but a very good job.

. but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability

Three out of four of the females working in my small department had a baby in their 40’s, one at 45. Most of my children's school friends were born when their parents were late 30’s, early 40’s. Obviously, this is just in my experience but it clearly happens a lot. Many miscarriages at this age are less to do with the age of the person carrying the baby than the age of the eggs and I know several people who have had successful pregnancies with frozen eggs all be it left from a previous IVF attempt rather than frozen purposely. I can’t imagine that women are going into egg freezing without being aware of the potential problems.

If they haven't met the right person yet what should they do? Have a baby with someone they don't want to spend their life with? Have a baby with someone they don't think will make a good parent? Sometimes we do the best we can, might not be perfect but I can't see what is wrong with having a back up plan. Is it a guarantee? No it isn't. Might it help? Yes it might.

I know two women who started IVF in their early 20s as they had been trying to get pregnant for a few years, both had babies but even as a 20 year old you can't guarantee you are fertile.

Indeed.

Just be happy with your decision and stop worrying about the women daring to ‘extend their twenties’ and prioritise fun and financial stability.

Hear hear!

Darwin anyone?

@DespairingALittle

Agree it’s a trade off (and should be an informed one, which I worry it’s not for many) but who said you cannot work and have children? 20 years of not working is a bit extreme. Many go back to work once kids are in school, large proportions before that even.

It's not that you cannot work and have children, of course you can.

But it's very hard to be financially self-sufficient when you have young children (certainly more than one) and extremely hard to develop a successful and rewarding career if you have a long gap in your CV.

It depends partly on what's most important to you. For me the prospect of having to rely on someone else's income was more frightening than the idea of not having children. That may be unusual.

Yes a friend’s parents are paying for her to have her eggs frozen. Personally I think she’d be better off using a sworn donor now and using her parents money on her home/ childcare. It’ll cost so much to actually use the frozen eggs and with no guarantees.
I think I saw on Instagram that vicki pattinson (sp?) was freezing her eggs. Couldn’t see a post about why though

Sperm not sworn

Since this is in AIBU: YANBU to think that a lot of people who are not actively trying to get pregnant underestimate how difficult it might be, and what the chances of being able to naturally conceive and carry a baby to term are. It's quite easy to be blissfully ignorant of the statistics, or think they just wouldn't apply to you.

But YABU to think that egg freezing is a common response to this. It costs thousands of pounds. The numbers of women using it is vanishingly small (fewer than 200 women in 2016 tried to get pregnant using their own defrosted eggs, obviously it's got a lot more popular since then and many more women have frozen eggs that they haven't yet tried to use, but it's still a tiny proportion of the population). It's just not an option for most women.