To think young women just don’t realise... (TW: fertility/ TTC)

[DespairingALittle]

Nc as this combined with various other posts would be outing, this is a bugbear I’ve thought about a lot when ttc myself and something today brought it up again...

Anyhow, AIBU to think ladies In their late twenties who freeze their eggs (or plan to as a ‘failsafe’) don’t realise it’s not a guarantee or the same as ‘pressing pause’ on biology?

This comes about as i was chatting to childhood friend (29, same as me) about kids (I have recently had DS so this is why we were chatting about kids) and she said ‘oh x (school pal) froze her eggs recently, if I haven’t had kids by 33 I’ll do the same, x is so relieved to press pause and take the pressure off’ another friend has also mentioned egg freezing recently for the same reason, both have just said they don’t want the responsibility of kids yet but are in a ‘good’ position to do so ... each to their own but all I could think was that it’s all well and good but it doesn’t guarantee anything! Sadly the demon biology also makes it harder to carry as you age too, it’s not all about eggs!

I just think so many in my generation have the attitude that it will just happen later regardless thanks to science but everyone I know who has had kids or tried to have kids later has struggled (not a guarantee ofc but a statistical probability nonetheless)... interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Perhaps this is more of a ‘my circle of friends’ issue than a wider one.

YANBU - it’s a concern, many may end up disappointed in the future, not to mention already falling birth rates etc
YABU - mind your own!

Op you're coming across rather as "now I'm a mother, I understand the world and my poor friends, they're so immature and ignorant compared to me because they haven't got children yet. One day they'll be childless and I'll be right and it will so tragic they didn't know everything I do"

You come across as extremely judgmental of their choices on this thread so I would be surprised if you hadn’t let any hint of that come across to them. They don’t need your pity and sadness for making different choices to you. And egg freezing is an involved procedure, people go into it with their eyes open.

I have to ask about a couple of your points:

Why on earth would having babies in your 20's mean you spend 20 years out of the workforce ? 2 or 3 yes, 5 at a stretch but 20 ?

Secondly my biggest fear with delaying pregnancy is the increased risk of :
a) Obstetric complications leading to :
b) Longterm health problems for the women
c) Premature birth
d) Increased risk of disabilities in the child due to the above but also
e) Subtle genetic imbalances not identified in NIPT testing or scans. This includes autism which is highly correlated with parental age.

Yes I agree. I have a fair few friends in mid 30s now who definitely want children one day but are showing no real urgency. Assuming that they still have plenty of time left. I was always worried about fertility issues so I got started at 25 just in case! But I know that's because I can be a worrier.

That’s fair, you don’t know me and tone is easily lost online. for me it’s more that me and dp did lots of research before ttc and spent a long time weighing up pros and cons of ttc now vs later (fertility, finances etc), chose higher chances of conceiving over other things and were very lucky as a consequence (and I know it’s not this way for all in their 20s) I don’t mind being called a bitch or whatever else - I’m more interested in hearing all sides as I only have my friends and the media/social media to go off and the ‘I know I want kids and I can definitely have them as late as I want because science’ seems more and more prevailing (even among those who are already settled from what I personally see and conversations I’ve had.

I think there needs to be more education about the success of egg freezing.

However, I know plenty of women who had children successfully later on.

Me being one of them. I had my son at 33, my daughter at 35 and I'm currently pregnant with my third at 36. All natural conceptions.

I know not everyone is as lucky, but it is a misconception that the majority of women in their 30s struggle to get pregnant.

You are right that there is a naivety about it, but also it's up to people to do their research and decide what they want to do. Any decent fertility clinic will give you the facts and tell you that statistically things are likely to decline after 35.

I don't think anyone would consider that remotely late. Assuming you TCC at 31/32 that strikes me as fairly typical. Of course the best prediction for a healthy pregnancy is a previous healthy pregnancy. Good luck.

it is more a concern that friends will be disappointed down the line. I think my issue is that they do seem to believe it’s a guarantee. They (and anyone else)are free to do whatever they want of course - all valid choices but I worry many see it as a guaranteed failsafe which it is not.

Again, though, I'm not sure what you'd have them do?

If they're not in a stable relationship or a stable financial situation they may not have any other choices at the moment. Freezing eggs is probably the best thing they can do in the current circumstances (short of charging out to get knocked up immediately by a random in a pub).

I think this is why your post has rubbed some people up the wrong way. You clearly feel you and your DP have done it the "right way" and your friends for whatever reason aren't in that place so those choices aren't open to them and they can't wind back time. I'm sure they know what the risks are, they are making the best of the choices available to them and your "concern" feels a little bit like a stealth boast.

I don't think you are being totally unreasonable, but I'd hope they are aware it's not a failsafe, and I'd also hope the clinics would inform them properly about the risks etc. Obviously it would be better if our society enabled genuine choice, e.g. affordable housing and childcare being available.

But they are in stable relationships and stable financially as I’ve mentioned multiple times now.

Yep, it’s something like only 2% of frozen eggs go on to be babies.

Why does that mean they should want to have children young though?

me and dp did lots of research before ttc and spent a long time weighing up pros and cons

This is… unusual. I would hazard a guess that most people do not care about having kids this much.

In your opinion. Maybe they want to be more financially stable, or more stable in their relationships. You don't always know what goes on behind closed doors.

And maybe your friends don't tell you everything. And even if they are making a terrible mistake, it's their mistake to make and their lesson to learn. It doesn't really matter, they are obviously not ready. And one piece of advice I'll give you as the DM of a five and a year one year old is absolutely do not have children, if you can at all help it, unless you are ready for them.

Maybe they want to focus on their careers - not really for you to say.

Oh andy one year old is the result of donor eggs and I had her at 42. I don't give a flying monkeys about the judgements you're making about the life choices I made in my 20s. I wouldn't change a thing.

I think it's all about education and being honest. I have a friend who's 31. She will ttc soon, so most likely she will be okay.

However, she told me once: "there are these tests that you can do that show you how many eggs you have left (AMH tests)"

I just told her bluntly that these tests are no guarantee for a healthy pregnancy and that it also depends on the quality of the eggs.

Most women are still fine having children in their 30s, but I agree that there's definitely a false sense of security.

I suppose I don’t think it should be unusual - fertility shouldn’t be taken for granted. It probably should be normal to discuss finances and fertility with the person who you plan to spend your entire life with lest you end up having children with (or not having children with) or marrying totally the wrong person ... Again as I’ve said in many ways now if you are sure you want kids and are in a position to do so it seems an unnecessary gamble to me.

Parenthood is a marathon, not a sprint, I wouldn't be so sure about your lack of regret just yet.

Sorry would you like to elaborate?

That's my take too.

So women who had missed two or three periods wouldn’t have known they were pregnant?

I think you’re talking about chemical pregnancy. I’m talking about missed miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities caused by poor quality eggs due to age.

OP, I agree that people are not necessarily aware of the difficulties (nor the commonality of them) that can arise when ttc. This is particularly relevant when people aren't ready for children as they see it as something they'll think about more later down the line. When people talk about the future and having children, there is rarely acknowledgement of the fact that it's not always easy.

However, that doesn't negate other factors. For me, I hadn't found someone I wanted to have children with. As I got older, being desperate to have children, I found it very difficult not to worry that my time was running out. It was never going to make me decide to go it alone or to latch on to the first person who came along but it was actually very depressing. I built a career and had fun but it loomed over me. Your friends may well be trying to protect their mental health (consciously or not) by taking the choices that they are.

Part of the issue for me was that I had a lot of older friends, many of whom had struggled to conceive, so I was painfully aware that it was something that could well take time and might not happen at all. Your friends are clearly not completely naive or uninformed, otherwise they would not be considering the choices they are. They see age as being a potential issue and are trying to counteract that now. There may be aspects to the argument that you think they've not considered, and you may well be right, who knows! What is stopping you from asking them? If you are genuinely that concerned that they have not considered all of the information that they should, pose it to them as questions. Show an interest. "What are the statistics around successful pregnancies with frozen eggs?" If they've thought about it, they'll reassure you. If they haven't, you might get them to start thinking about it.

Another issue for me was that I was also very aware of the increase in risks to mother and baby after 40 because of the issues that my friends had. There are, of course, those who have smooth pregnancies even at 40+ but it was something I felt was a risk I wouldn't want to take. So, I was very aware of time scales and made choices accordingly. Your friends have different considerations and therefore their time scales (and choices) are different. I think you're right that discussion about things like fertility should be much more open because some people might make different choices. I know some of my friends would have done. By talking to your friends irl, you can help get that conversation going. You've done it here and I think it has resulted in a really interesting thread.

Out of interest, I met the man I wanted to have children with, within my time scale. We tried for a baby when we were sure we were committed and we conceived quickly, which resulted in our son.

You are 42 and you have a one year old. This is the easy bit and you are still relatively young. You have absolutely no idea what the next 20 years will throw at you. In 5 years many of your contempories may not have dependant children anymore. You have another 10 years of nursery/school runs, clearing up mess and cooking meals.You may not feel quite so pleased with your choices then. But then again maybe you will who knows ?

Of course they may not tell me everything! I can only go off what they have told me and their apparent liaise faire attitude toward ttc. If you don’t know if you want kids or know you don’t then it’s silly to rush into having them. I’m sure we agree on that much! But it’s a big gamble if you’re sure you do and are generally ready to have them!