Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

[SeriouslyTryadifferentstory]

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

There's 0 reason why you should sell your flat, and there's really nothing your brothers can do about that. Grey rock them, and focus on getting your parent's flat sold.

This is the crux really

If the OP simply paid the mortgage, but it was in the parents name, thats a different kettle of fish to it being a mortgage taken out in their name.

Likewise if the parents and them are joint tenants or tenants in common, then thats a different kettle of fish to the OP being the sole 100% owner of the flat.

If 100% owner, then it's clear cut, if not get thee to a solicitor and take advice. If they are not named at all on the deeds at all there is still Proprietary Estoppel which can go in their favour considering the time and investment, but it's a lot more complex and less certain.

Whatever, don't roll over or sign anything without advice from a lawyer. And if 100% owner on land registry, its a polite foxtrot oscar!

You should only sell if you want to, i.e. to get the "whole house bonus", which would also apply to the price you can get for your flat, but given the setup sounds negligible to me, and if you are worried about being in a ground stairs flat with new neighbours above you, which will probably change the dynamics of living in the house.
If you want to stay, stay - surely it can't be that hard to just tell a sibling to piss off, isn't that what a lifetime of siblinghood trains us for? 😁

Importantly, if, the property is still in the parents name alone, it is sold and the money split. Parent goes into care, his share of money runs out, then the LA will come after the rest as they will consider it deprivation of assets - and as the property will have been reduced to cash you have no chance of arguing any points of law about beneficial interest, proprietary estoppel, being rendered homeless, having the right to a disregard etc.. it is just a pile of cash and the LA can persue it unencumbered.

My first question would be do they understand this and have all the facts.

It's amazing what can get twisted in families where things haven't been explained but alluded to and things then assumed.

If the bottom flat is legally yours selling is nothing to do with them.

When I've lived in flats like this there often been set up a management company/entity that dealt with building repairs - that only real issue I can see that might impact the top flat - if they are legally separately selling top flat by itself for care home fees really shouldn't be an issue.

You haven't said who owns the ground floor flat @SeriouslyTryadifferentstory .

As you say DH is battling a chronic illness, then that would be a mandatory disregard in an assessment by the LA under disability.

She has read the ops comments

What I understood is the OP and her parent bought a house together and funded the conversion of it in to two flats. The two flats are compeltely separate and one is in the owenrship of her parents and one in her ownership of the OP and her husband.

The OPs mother has died and her father is now in care and his flat needs to be sold to fund this.

The OPs' property is completely separate both physically and in terms of ownership and has nothing to do with the flat above. The siblings are being odd.

I am not sure selling two flats together "as a house" will be a good idea as it will cost the buyer money to covert it back in to one house again - such places tend to be cheaper than similar sized houses because of that. Sold as two flats and a freehold it might be attractive to an investor but they will be savvy in terms of negotiating.

But ultimately this does not matter as the OP does not want to sell their flat.

Ehhhh sorry you've worked hard it's your flat tell them to buzz off if your perfectly happy there 🙂

Well they have no legal rights to your flat, so that's none of their business. Surely you can sell the other flat? Or were the deeds never rectified to reflect the separate ownership?

Just seen your update. Yes, tell them to fuck right off!

Sell the parents' flat, fine, that's a discussion to be had. But why do they think they have any rights to discuss your home?!

What do they mean by 'find you somewhere to live'? Hell, I can find you somewhere to live. Doesn't mean it's suitable or I intend to buy it for you.

God people get odd when it comes to money and inheritance. Glad you’re telling them to forget it. They have no right to try and push you to sell.

The OP's flat has no relevance to the sale of her father flat - whether it is downstairs or 400 miles away.

It sounds like they have had some sorts of crazy idea that they will get a better price for your dad's flat if they sell yours at the same time - however as noted houses converted in to flats tend to be knocked out cheaper than similar properties due to the additional work involved in coverting them back in to family houses.

They are deranged.

Your brothers are *rseholes. I'm glad your DS seems to have toyour back.

Your flat is YOUR HOME. You've paid for ir, worked on it, love it, and want to live in it - and that is your right.

It sounds like your brothers think you lived there on a grace and favour basis rather than having bought the flat at the same time as your parents. That needs to be made clear to them. Any financial help your parents may have given is not really relevant and I imagine you have been the one supporting your parents on a daily basis until now.

Or that they think the property will sell faster/ for more it the two flats are sold together. Whatever their motive, stand firm. If you don't want to leave, you don't want to leave and it's as simple as that.

I suspect they think the parenst still own both flats - and will "help" Op find some where else to rent.

I'd be very surprised if they said this knowing the flats are legally separate and OP bought and paid off the mortgage for the downstairs flat.

As it's not directly their business it's possible no one explained the actual situation and they've made assumptions.

Why are they bothered about getting a better price when the money will likely disappear in care home fees anyway?

God knows 🤷‍♀️

Not entirely, she says that a mortgage was taken out on the ground floor flat and that she and her DH paid it off.

The critical bit is who is named on the leasehold and land registry documentation for the ground floor flat.

It would be helpful if the OP could tell us if she and DH alone are named on the LR for the flat, or if the father is named on there as well - it makes a big difference as to whether its a blunt "F-O" or a trip to the local solicitor.

Your home is your hime and its belongs to you. It's got nothing to do with your brothers nor your dads ownership of his flat. If you want to sell your dads flat you can but yours is yours and Id be telling my brothers to wind their necks in & to never mention it again.

OP, who bought the house in the first place? You haven't answered about whether you received financial help or a discount for the flat? Do your brothers want you to sell the flat because you have had more help than they have?

Who paid the deposit for the house and was this taken into consideration with the mortgage?

Your brothers' position makes no sense. It's your flat, if it's entirely separate from the other one why would that boost the value of the other flat? Who would want to go to the effort of remodelling it all and starting again as one property? And if it's sold ad two separate properties surely there's a risk selling yours, if it's nicer, might actually bring down the value of the other one? I'd just say no, it's my home, it's not up for discussion, and refuse to engage on it any more.

No need at all for you to sell your flat just because there is a need to sell the other one. It is your home and you own it - not up for discussion.

I'm not even convinced selling as a whole would increase the value. I thought multiple flats sold as one lot were more likely o be discounted. They would be of less interest to the average residential purchaser anyway.

Are you interested in trying to buy the upstairs flat youself to let it out? It might be possible using equity from your flat if you don't have a deposit. You could speak to a broker. You would need to get an independent valuation. It does sound though like your siblings might be driven to get the most money so could get messy as they push for more than the fair valuation. You would be obligated to get the best price for your father's flat as it would be in his best interests to do so - so you might have to market the flat anyway to see if there is a higher offer made.

Not a great time to be a landlord but you might be interested because you have more control over choosing tenants. If you are interested look into the finances of it carefully - particularly not being able to fully deduct mortgage interest as an expense if you are a higher rate tax payer or rental receipts make you one.

Don't sell your home. No way.

Definitely tell them to take a hike then. They're being completely unreasonable.