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Original poster

Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

731 replies

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 21/05/2023 23:15

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 23/05/2023 18:50

OP,

Your brothers are greedy bullies and ceasing all contact is the best action.

My friend bought her parents house 20 years ago, again market rate.

Gorgeous house and garden.

Her parents lived abroad but would return for 2 weeks at a time several times a year and they stayed with her every single time and at times it wasn't easy for her lovely husband.

They never stayed a single night in the homes of her three brothers.

They then both had health issues and it was decided they should return home to the UK before Brexit.

Her 3 brothers were appalled that they were now not moving in full time with my friend to be looked after, leaving their inheritance untouched!

Her marriage would not survive this so they are installed in a lovely expensive assisted living flat and really enjoying it.

Her brothers continue to be "disappointed at her selfishness.

Three CF.

Her parents could live for years, despite their health issues, and they are getting great care.

The meanness of her brothers took even her by surprise.

They absolutely expected her to house them, nurse them, and give up her career to do so.

She actively avoids all three now.

Sallyh87 · 23/05/2023 18:53

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 20:56

I've spoken to my sister who has spoken to our other brother (B). Apparently Bro A and his mate want to buy the 2 flats to rent out. They're planning to reduce the size of the garden, tarmac the larger part and rent out what could probably amount to 8 or 9 small parking spaces! Quite what B would get out of this arrangement is unclear (although sis and I both think he might be the mate). So ... 2 flats rented at around a £ 1000 and £1300 a month, plus the guaranteed parking spaces at maybe £30 a week gives them a nice income and they don't even want to pay me the full price for my flat and garden!

I've e-mailed A and B, saying that I don't appreciate them trying to bully me into selling my flat TO THEM, particularly when they've not been honest about being the buyers, knowing DH is unwell (and essentially leaving all decision making to me at the moment). I've also pointed out that the 50/50 split they wanted was really shafting me and if they continue to push the issue I'll get a solicitor involved. I've told them that I want no further contact with them.

My sister has also emailed them, saying that Dad gave his daughters joint LPA over his health and wealth not them and that Dads insistence that "his girls" look after him now makes perfect sense. She's also said that she wants no further contact with them.

I'm angry but also confused. My brothers have always been a little condescending but it never occurred to me that they might try something like this.

Well, at least you have seen them for what they are. That’s a gift really.

And also, seen your sister for who she is. She is a worthwhile person.

Glad your parents had lots is lovely holidays too!

PeachyPeachTrees · 23/05/2023 18:58

"No and I'm not changing my mind and I won't discuss it further"

Also, you selling and moving incurres high costs, are the brothers going to take that into consideration? I doubt it.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 23/05/2023 18:59

@MsStyles , unless the flat is in e.g. a seriously prime area of London, the rent would be highly unlikely to cover even half the fees. And that’s without tax payable on the rental income, plus all the maintenance/insurance/ management costs of letting a property.

Floppyelf · 23/05/2023 19:04

i’d register the lpa against your fathers deed incase they try something shady in the interim period of your dad being in a care home and eventually dying.

Badbudgeter · 23/05/2023 19:08

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 23/05/2023 18:59

@MsStyles , unless the flat is in e.g. a seriously prime area of London, the rent would be highly unlikely to cover even half the fees. And that’s without tax payable on the rental income, plus all the maintenance/insurance/ management costs of letting a property.

I think the suggested rent was £1k a month lucky if that covered a week in a specialist dementia care home.

Scousefab · 23/05/2023 19:09

So sorry you have had this horrendous treatment by your brothers. It’s very shameful what people do for a bit of cash. Most people don’t realise they can’t take the Money with them. Sending lots of best wishes and so glad you have your sister supporting you. My DH was involved in a similar scenario so you have my sympathies entirely. Sounds like your dad made the right decision naming you both LPA. He must have seen what they were like himself.

Alinino124 · 23/05/2023 19:10

As I understand in the U.K. it is the law if you have assets of over £23500 you have to sell your property to pay for your own care fees. I know utterly shocking. Unless you dad can get nhs “continuing care” (he has to need 24hr care in their opinion) you have to pay. I don’t know if it’s cheaper to get a home carer depends on his health issues.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 23/05/2023 19:12

Floppyelf · 23/05/2023 19:04

i’d register the lpa against your fathers deed incase they try something shady in the interim period of your dad being in a care home and eventually dying.

Gosh, is that a thing to be done?
My gast is absolutely flabbered at the thought of the OP's brothers having her so discombobulated that she actually believed they might be acting in their father's best interests in suggesting the house be sold all at once, despite being legally divided into two separate flats with two separate owners. It must be a cruel realisation to find that your brothers are so unutterably selfish that they would consider such machinations behind your back and pretend that you are in the wrong for not agreeing to their con. I wonder if the OP is the youngest and is used to looking up to her brothers and thinking they must be right? I am so glad that the OP's father had the measure of his sons and only wanted his daughters to protect his interests (presumably a while ago, so they can't accuse the OP and her sister of manipulating a man with dementia).

JustBeKindItsEasy · 23/05/2023 19:13

Male entitlement.
Apologies for this sexist comment but we ve had this in our family and it’s always the sons ( without exception ) that are little entitled shits when it comes to care for older relatives.
Stay where you are OP enjoy your flat and lovely big garden

Ignore your brothers, thank goodness your sister supports you

arricu · 23/05/2023 19:15

Sorry you’re dealing with this OP it’s scandalous

JustBeKindItsEasy · 23/05/2023 19:15

You should also register with Land registry and ask for an alert on both your flat, your dads and the freehold ( if it’s separate )
If there’s any activity for the properties LandRegistry will send you an automatic alert by email.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 23/05/2023 19:19

I don’t see why it’s shocking, @Alinino124 - have you any idea what typical care home fees cost? If you have assets enough to pay, and a home you no longer live in, why should the local authority aka taxpayer have to fund you?

I should add that both my DM and my FiL were entirely self funded in their care homes (both had dementia). IMO it’s something of a ‘luxury’ to be able to self fund, being able to choose the time and place - instead of having to depend on the tender mercies of social services who (understandably, given the cost) will typically wait until relatives doing their best to care are on their knees with stress and exhaustion.

Kennykenkencat · 23/05/2023 19:21

When my oldest brother called earlier for his daily "have you come to your senses yet?" chat I told him I have arranged for a couple of EAs to come and give us a price for Dad's flat only. He called me a selfish little bitch and hung up on me

TBH if your brothers have property that has a lot of equity and a business partner who wants the house as a whole I think you should tell your dbs that you think to not be selfish bitches you should all sell up their property’s business partner included (if they are separate to the other brother) then split the proceeds 6 ways (5ways if business partner is other brother) between siblings business partner and father.
That would be the fairest and you all want to be fair and above board. Anything less as your db pointed out would make them selfish bitches.

Let’s see how quick brothers put their houses on the market.

Daleksatemyshed · 23/05/2023 19:28

@JustBeKindItsEasy sadly you're right, it does tend to be male entitlement, they think caring should be a female pastime but as soon as there's money available it's a different story. A very dear friend looked after both her DP's whilst working full time and her DB's left her to it, as soon as the DP's died they all harrassed her about splitting the value of the house.

Daffodilwoman · 23/05/2023 19:32

So sorry you are having to endure this op.
What awful pugs your brothers are.
At least your sister has your back.

Buddug · 23/05/2023 19:34

No. Absolutely not. You have been a free cater to your elderly father since your mother passed and now they want you to move out? Tell your brothers to sod off.

mandlerparr · 23/05/2023 19:35

You all should try really hard to make sure they can't buy just your dad's flat either. You don't want that next door.

JustBeKindItsEasy · 23/05/2023 19:41

Daleksatemyshed · 23/05/2023 19:28

@JustBeKindItsEasy sadly you're right, it does tend to be male entitlement, they think caring should be a female pastime but as soon as there's money available it's a different story. A very dear friend looked after both her DP's whilst working full time and her DB's left her to it, as soon as the DP's died they all harrassed her about splitting the value of the house.

So sad for the parents.when my mum was dying, last night, my db went to a party he had at his house and was too drunk to come back to be with her.
For my dad they went on holiday. The first thing SIL on their return from holiday ( not cut short we held up the funeral ) did was put a for sale sign outside the house.
Before the funeral.!

Oh how I loved delaying probate for as long as possible 🤣🤣

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 23/05/2023 19:42

mandlerparr · 23/05/2023 19:35

You all should try really hard to make sure they can't buy just your dad's flat either. You don't want that next door.

Sounds to me as if they wouldn't be interested in just buying their father's flat - I think they thought they could put one over on the OP and force her to sell and lose out on the sale of her own flat but at a profit for themselves. Why they thought she would accept such a ludicrous proposition is beyond me.

IsobelElsie123 · 23/05/2023 19:44

I am not clear if it is her home (legally). If not, it’s not her brothers fault, this should have been sorted when she moved into the property. It’s right that her Father’s (share?) is sold to pay/contribute to the fees.

musicalold · 23/05/2023 19:46

IsobelElsie123 · 23/05/2023 19:44

I am not clear if it is her home (legally). If not, it’s not her brothers fault, this should have been sorted when she moved into the property. It’s right that her Father’s (share?) is sold to pay/contribute to the fees.

The OP has made it very clear in her posts that it is legally her home and now has nothing to do with her fathers estate. I'm not sure how you're missing that?

CabernetSauvignon · 23/05/2023 19:46

@IsobelElsie123, OP has clarified that the flat is legally hers and her husband's.

saraclara · 23/05/2023 19:47

IsobelElsie123 · 23/05/2023 19:44

I am not clear if it is her home (legally). If not, it’s not her brothers fault, this should have been sorted when she moved into the property. It’s right that her Father’s (share?) is sold to pay/contribute to the fees.

OP has explained that very clearly in multiple posts. She bought it at market value, had a mortgage on it, and has paid off that mortgage. It is registered at the Land Registry with her as the owner.

Her father's flat is a separate property, registered in his name. There is absolutely nothing complicated about this, and I don't know how many times OP is expected to confirm this.

saraclara · 23/05/2023 19:47

Seriously, the comprehension level of some posters on this thread is appalling.