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Original poster

Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

731 replies

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 21/05/2023 23:15

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

OP posts:
Rosscameasdoody · 23/05/2023 17:59

ChekhovsMum · 23/05/2023 07:13

Forgot to say, I think there’s also a rule where you don’t have to sell a house to pay for care if it is still someone’s main home? But you’d have to Google for that I’m afraid - I can’t remember in detail

It’s not the OP’s home, it’s her fathers’. She owns one of the two flats the house was converted to. For info, most LA’s will only disregard the main home if the person who is still resident is the partner of the person going into care. They will only consider other direct family members if they are over 60, are incapacitated, have no other residence, and have lived in the property before the person went into care. A charge will still be placed on the property until such time as it’s sold, and care fees will be recovered along with any charges or interest accrued.

BaconChops · 23/05/2023 18:00

Tell them to bugger off!

Mumof32017 · 23/05/2023 18:07

Aquamarine1029 · 22/05/2023 00:50

Who, exactly, owns what? Don't allow your brothers to bulldoze you out of your home.

It quite clearly states who owns what. Op and husband paid off a mortgage on their flat so own it outright. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Clymene · 23/05/2023 18:09

No you're wrong @Rosscameasdoody

The OP has been very clear: To be clear, the property was separated legally into two flats, with separate entrances. Each has its own utilities and council tax is paid per flat, not on the house as a whole.

It is two homes - a house divided into flats, each of them are separate dwellings. Her father (and her brothers) have no claim on her property.

Clymene · 23/05/2023 18:11

Sorry, I think I've totally misunderstood you! You're talking about the dad's flat, not the OP's. Blush

Apologies.

OhcantthInkofaname · 23/05/2023 18:13

mainsfed · 22/05/2023 00:13

It’s not clear who owns what. Could you clarify, OP?

It's clear. Read it again.

Clare26 · 23/05/2023 18:14

How awful. You paid the correct price for a property and own this outright. Why are they not selling one of their properties to pay for it? Just because it’s a flat next to your dads makes no difference. Stand strong. They have no legal say on a property you bought and paid the mortgage on.

saraclara · 23/05/2023 18:15

Meandspottydogs · 23/05/2023 17:54

I did read the thread.

I also read that family members were suggesting selling the whole property, so the op needs to be fully armed in her defence if things get difficult. Trying to help here, no need for rudeness

Show quote history

Then your post makes no sense. The brothers suggesting that the whole house is sold cannot make things get difficult. The house no longer exists as a property in itself. The building now cotains two separate flats, registered separately with the Lanr Registry, and owned by two different people. The brothers do not have POA and can do absolutely nothing about it. The only trouble they can make is emotional, such as A calling OP a selfish bitch.

Your help made no sense given the information that OP has clearly given.

OhcantthInkofaname · 23/05/2023 18:17

runninglady55 · 22/05/2023 07:36

There's far too little information to comment properly

Were the conversions done properly literally, separate entrances and locks? What about freehold, title deed separation? And who owns it on deed and how was it structured for tenants on deed? (Joint or tenants in common with just you or were your parents on, and did your mum's executor sort her estate properly). Was mortgage actually in your name? Separate utilities supply and also council tax?

People commenting here that "of course" you should stay around and tell them to f off don't have key information. It's an odd expectation so something must be going on

Piffle. There is plenty of information. There are two separate residences. The one was converted into two apartments legally. They have separate entrances and deeds. They had separate mortgages.

MsStyles · 23/05/2023 18:18

Could you rent out the top flat to cover dads care home fees? You don’t have to sell the flat, as long as the rent covers fees. That way everyone still gets their inheritance.

mickey54 · 23/05/2023 18:18

If your brothers do not hold LPA for finances they cannot sell a property for a person lacking capacity. If you girls have the LPA you and her only decide what to do in your fathers best interest. For example you could have a deferred payment and not sell it if you wanted to . You brothers have no legal standing in this.

monsteramunch · 23/05/2023 18:19

@Meandspottydogs

I also read that family members were suggesting selling the whole property, so the op needs to be fully armed in her defence if things get difficult. Trying to help here, no need for rudeness

But they can't sell 'the whole property' because they don't own the whole property as it doesn't exist any more. Two properties now exist and OP owns one of them. Her brothers have zero claim to it in any way, shape or form.

So she doesn't need a 'defence' prepared because her brothers have as much claim to her home as I do, and I'm a complete stranger!

Why would she need to be 'fully armed in her defence' of the situation? Who would she be defending it to?

Nanny0gg · 23/05/2023 18:22

Meandspottydogs · 23/05/2023 17:54

I did read the thread.

I also read that family members were suggesting selling the whole property, so the op needs to be fully armed in her defence if things get difficult. Trying to help here, no need for rudeness

Show quote history

She is fully armed.

She fully and completely owns her own flat (with her husband)

She has made that abundantly clear!

Daleksatemyshed · 23/05/2023 18:22

Your DBs have been such a letdown @SeriouslyTryadifferentstory but your Dad obviously had an idea what they were like. Thankfully as you and your DSis both hold POA they'd have to convince you both which clearly isn't happening. If you've already contacted all the people like energy suppliers/council/banks etc you will have a clear track record that shows whose taking care of your DF's affairs incase they get any other clever ideas about your DF's money. In your place I would make it clear to the care home that they were not allowed to speak for your DF and make sure they know all decisions need to go via you or your DSis.
I'm sorry you've had such a bad time when your DH is ill

PuzzledObserver · 23/05/2023 18:25

I doubt letting is a viable option when you consider that care home fees average £1000-£1200 a week. The rent would have to clear that, and the management, maintenance costs.

Which is why I said IF it was a viable option. Also, the rental income wouldn’t have to cover the whole of the care fees, only that part above the father’s pension.

if it’s a non-starter, fair enough.

Peoniesandcats · 23/05/2023 18:25

Glad your sister is being supportive. It’s worth seeing how much a care home annuity would cost as well. I’ve got one for my mum x

OhcantthInkofaname · 23/05/2023 18:25

rwalker · 22/05/2023 13:46

Great update it’s now cleared up that OP actually purchased the flat from her parents
the only thing to divy up is her dads flat upstairs

It was always clear.

TiaraBoo · 23/05/2023 18:27

It only makes sense if the 2 brothers think OP is renting/living for free in a flat still owned by the dad.
Otherwise it’s just ridiculous to be called a selfish bitch for not wanting to sell your own home that you own.

Tessabelle74 · 23/05/2023 18:32

Tell them you'll sell your flat when they sell their property too. Complete cheeky fuckery

WiddlinDiddlin · 23/05/2023 18:34

Who will be the executor of the will when OP's Dad passes...

Because I think it might be smarter to sell now, whilst the OP has LPA, and whilst she and her sister have some ability to control who buys it.

If it remains unsold until DF dies, and it then becomes his estate to which all 4 siblings take a share, the executor will be selling and OP may not have so much control.

My thought here is that then cunty brothers buy it and make her life hell renting to nobheads... or some other dastardly plan is enacted (getting a mate to buy it as cheap as possible on their behalf, putting other buyers off etc etc)...

Better to sell now anyway so DF benefits from that money as he certainly isn't able to benefit from the property any other way now. At least then any money left when he passes is just money, and if shenanigans occur over the division of it, that doesn't land the OP with an awful neighbour upstairs!

pineapplecrushed · 23/05/2023 18:34

NO WAY. They are arses for suggesting it. It's your home, bought and paid for.

CornishAdventures · 23/05/2023 18:44

If you’re within the U.K., your dads flat will pay for the nursing home fees until his savings reach a certain level (I think around £20k). After this point, your dad will be entitled to funding for his space in the nursing home. Not all home are covered so best to check. There is no need for you to sell your property

CUL8RAlligator · 23/05/2023 18:44

"My brothers want to sell both flats and split the proceeds 50/50"

You own one flat, dad owns the other, your brothers have absolutely no say in the matter. What a pair of CFs

Somersetgirl1 · 23/05/2023 18:47

QuickDuck · 21/05/2023 23:26

Why on earth do they even think you should consider selling your flat? Do they own property? Maybe suggest they’ll sell theirs and you’ll find them somewhere else!
Bizzare for them to suggest it.

This

IsItThough · 23/05/2023 18:47

By the same logic the all the siblings should sell each of their homes, pool the money and split it 5 ways. What nonsense

Tell them to fuck off.