Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

[SeriouslyTryadifferentstory]

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

Look into a deferred payment agreement - essentially a loan from your local county council, where they pay the care home fees and you can live in the house. When it’s sold, or when your parent dies, you have 90 days to get the house sold before it starts accruing interest. Some councils do it and some don’t - they don’t advertise the fact for obvious reasons! But it is your right to apply for it if it’s available.

Forgot to say, I think there’s also a rule where you don’t have to sell a house to pay for care if it is still someone’s main home? But you’d have to Google for that I’m afraid - I can’t remember in detail

It's possible that he's 'the pal' though.

Cutting someone out of your life because of a 'possibility' send a bit drastic though.

Brother A is disgusting, though.

Seems, even

I'm assume your user name is apt too. Your post was silly. You wee minimising what her brothers are doing. To their own flesh and blood nonetheless. I stand by the shut up

Oh and funny you say I shouldn't be rude when......you're being rude!

As you have POA with your sister, you would be dealing with the sale of your dad’s flat with no legal input from your brothers. There is no way they can force the sale of your flat.

DPA's can be useful in some circumstances, but if you read the information on any given councils website it states about three times "take legal & financial advice from a professional"
This is because a DPA is a loan secured against the title of a property, like a mortgage. Interest and charges apply from the minute the DPA is taken out, once the person dies you have 90 days to settle the DPA loan or the council will take action to recover the debt (ie seize the property via the charge). It's not a loan that can run and run.
Most people use a DPA to give themselves some breathing space between the relative entering care and selling the property, rather than waiting until the relative passes away and finding they have 90 days to sell!
In this case a DPA might be the OPs friend as a bridging loan between dad going into care and her selling the flat or purchasing it with her sister as a let.

The Dads house and the Ops house are already separate dwellings.
It was one house, separated 20 years ago into two flats, separate title deeds, councils tax and bills.

The legal position on this matter is secure. They have lost all entitlement even to OP's tacit cooperation - meaning an explanation if not a capitulation to selling her own property on demand from them - the moment one of them called her a 'bitch'.

As far as I'd be concerned, 'no' is now a complete sentence. If CF brother cares to spend his time, energy and money chasing a legal dead-end, that's his call.

It's amazing how often you see people's true colours when there's an inheritance somewhere on the horizon. Unfortunately I've witnessed two similar situations with siblings whose relationship never recovered.

Sorry about your parents, OP. 🌹

Oh wow, OP. Your dad knew what he was doing giving you and your sister LPA. I'm so glad you're protecting yourself and looking after him along with your sister. Your letter to your brothers is spot on.

Since you and your sister have power of attorney, you can decide what is in your father’s best interests:-

1. Sell his flat and put the proceeds on deposit, earning a paltry amount of interest, and pay his care fees out of that;

2. Let his flat, using the rent, less maintenance costs and management expenses, to pay his care fees.

If 2) is a viable option, it also gives you some say over who will be living above you. You would have to charge full market rent, though - you couldn’t do it “mates rates” for somebody you knew, as you have a responsibility to look after your father’s interest.

He presumably has pension income, so you don’t have to cover the whole of the fees out of his assets, only the extra above his pension.

Sounds like your Dad knew what they were like so he gave you and DSis joint LPA. I'm sorry your brother's have turned out to be prepared to screw you over to make a quick buck. Particularly nasty of them to be trying to rip off their sister when her DH is Ill. It really says everything you need to know about them, and while you're better off without family like that, it's still really hurtful.

Yep. I would tend to agree with that. I might reconsider if brother came grovelling back, explaining that he'd used inappropriate language and apologising for not realising that he should have involved/consulted OP more in his plans.

But the bottom line is still that if the OP doesn't want to move, no amount of money will change that. (The mid line is that somewhere there is an amount of money which might persuade her. But that amount is likely to be way off any negotiating table, in any case.)

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family and unfortunately sometimes your family turn out to be arseholes.

Good decision to go no contact. You've enough on your plate without them trying to swindle you.

All this drama & nastiness for approx 3000 a month between them??

It's a shame you and your sister can't buy the flat together, at the proper market value of course, and then rent it out ... 😉

I doubt letting is a viable option when you consider that care home fees average £1000-£1200 a week. The rent would have to clear that, and the management, maintenance costs.

OP doesn't live in her father's flat, so this doesn't apply to her.

How do you own the property, ie jointly with your dad, or as tenants in common?

It's actually a little more complex than it seems. You really need legal advice to establish how the ownership was set up, and how social services will regard the asset.

Also check out the website society of later life advisors (SOLLA). Listed are specialist advisers for the financial side of the matter,
SFE is solicitors for the elderly.

You've got 2 issues, sorting out the property, and navigating the care system.

Please read the thread, or at least read all the OP's posts. She owns her own property. She does not own, either jointly or in common with, her father's property. The two properties are entirely separate and have no legal or financial tie to each other. OP's flat is hers, her father's is his.

If you go to the ops original post and click ‘see all’ you’ll see the updates clarifying that the parents’ house was converted into two separate flats - the parents lived in one and the OP paid the full market value for the other, for which she had a mortgage. They’re registered separately with land registry as two separate properties - the LA has no claim on the OP’s flat and there’s no issue here, other than the greed of the brothers wanting to capitalise at her expense.

I did read the thread.

I also read that family members were suggesting selling the whole property, so the op needs to be fully armed in her defence if things get difficult. Trying to help here, no need for rudeness

This would be brilliant if possible of course, as then you would have an ongoing income and control over who lives upstairs.

Deferred payment isn't a good long term plan if the property is going to be sold anyway. It's fine as a stop-gap while the flat is on the market but there's no sense in delaying unless you'd be able to get a much higher sale price after a bit of redecorating.