Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

[SeriouslyTryadifferentstory]

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

That's right: the father owns the upstairs flat, the Op owns the downstairs flat and the large garden.
Together, they make up a site that could be sold for redevelopment and, if that's what they have in mind, it's why the brothers want Op to sell her home to move elsewhere and why the older brother became angry when Op said she wasn't selling.

Yeah, but if you did sell both flats (to the same person who wanted to convert them back into one house) then you would get the value of your flat and your Dad would get the value of his. They are legally separate properties - so forget about splitting 50/50. Your solicitor would tell you that.

And, to protect your interests, you should use a different solicitor who was only representing you. If you wanted to go that route, use the same estate agent to list both flats with the proviso that yours will only be sold if someone wants to buy both.

But most of all - if you don’t want to move, don’t sell.

Is the issue that Ops DF also has money ?
I wonder if they want the flat sales X2 to fund the DF care so that the remaining money he has is protected as "their" inheritance ( no guarantees anyway)
Either way they are CF.
Op paid FMP, it's her property and she should not be forced into selling it.
Even if she did the proceeds,are legally hers and her DHs.
These types of nasty situations always arise when nasty people have their eyes on money.

You cannot sell the whole house. You legally own the garden flat and your father owns the upstairs flat. It matters not that you are related.

Your father can go into care on the basis that the flat will be sold to pay for his care home fees. Any extra will have to be met from surviving relatives. I would seek legal advice on how best to enact a repayment of fees for the care home.

I hope you get good advice given your circumstances. You have the worry of a dad and a husband to look after. Please take care of yourself and all the best to you and your sister, who is your friend and ally. xx

To add, I wonder if your brothers will be happy to clear out the flat of his belongings. I'm guessing not.

Not true, relatives are not required to meet any care costs, the local authority will take over automatically once the fathers assets have been used up to the threshold, c£23,000 - Never are relatives required or compelled to contribute unless they decide to.

I'm really confused why your brothers are suggesting this? It's so beyond unreasonable, I don't understand it!

Why don’t your brothers sell their houses along with your dad’s flat and split all the proceeds 50/50. They can move elsewhere and that’ll increase the money your dad will get.

I mean, it is the exact same thing as you selling yours. You bought it and paid for it and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with your dad’s property. Your parents have already had the money.

I really cannot understand what your brother is thinking? Have you said no fully now?

This just seems bizarre OP! Why would they think they have any right to request this?! Stick to your guns and keep your sister on side

It depends on the care home. I would hope that you are right, but sometimes people die at the beginning of the month, sorry OP, and the outstanding amount is charged. I know someone who put their husband into care on the basis on the house they owned would pay for the fees, she still lived in the home. When she died the house had to be sold, care fees for her husband totalling £80,000.

How awful OP.
My sister no longer speaks to me on a ficticious claim I fleeced my late father. He lived with us for 18 years and only contributed for two years out of attendance allowance. I gave up my big job and when our savings ran out my three other siblings gave nothing. We were desperate. Two even went on fancy holidays after his death and before his funeral. Your brothers sound vile bullies and trust me it won't end well. Greed is all consuming. It is your flat and you are not selling. How they can ignore your DH being ill just shows what w**kers they are.
You poor woman, I feel for you. Stay strong.

Unfortunately many people a rooked by care providors, you should always be assessed by the local authority before going into care and the financial plan settled by them, if you go it alone you risk your friends fate.

As a spouse she was legally entitled to a mandatory disregard, meaning the LA would pick up all the fees - or privately it could have been arranged via a lifetime mortgage, sadly she went down the wrong path and got stung!

Me too.

Worth saying when a house is shared the dynamics are different. In this case the OP has a legally separate dwelling, so can't in any way be compelled to pay, nor can her siblings. The proceeds of the fathers flat are his reserves for care, when gone the LA takes over.

But the brother doesnt have any choice over the 'site' because its not his 'site', even IF, an EA was instructed and said, well please sell these two flats together or approach a developer who wants to convert it back into a full house, its not brothers flats, its the father and OP who instruct that (or not) and as I said way back in the thread, actually its a really poor proposition, developers dont tend to put houses back together, they are in the business of breaking them up to make flats, its more lucrative.

Thanks for the clarification @tonyatotter

My friend had a house worth £350,000 so the care fees were well covered plus she wanted her husband in a private care home.

@tonyatotter, an elderly man I got to know when visiting my DM in her care home, was visiting his wife with dementia every day. His health had broken down with trying to care for her - changing wet beds 3 times a night was just one thing he told me. They owned their own home, so once he died, or had to go into care himself, the house would be sold to repay the ‘rolled up’ fees to the local authority, which was picking up the tab in the meantime. He was entirely happy with this arrangement, particularly since they had no children to think of.

Thats fair enough, and she got to stay in it for life (normal for the spouse), so no one was hard done by, all legit.

Er, it’s a Victorian semi, not a Victorian mansion 😂

If he was happy and had no children, fair enough, I suspect he and his wife signed up to a Deferred Payment Scheme and had a first order charge on the house, which is local authorities preferred method and they do like to push, however the rules are really clear, if the home is lived in by a:
Spouse
Dependent over the age of 60
Someone with a disability
(Some councils include someone who moved in to care at their detriment)
then it must be disregarded in the care assessment and forms no part of the funding.
Thats in black and white on every councils website.

Your brothers are nasty, bullying cunts. They are also completely in the wrong. After what your eldest brother said, I would block him across the board and never speak to him again.

I would just send one blanket text message to all siblings saying you are not selling your apartment. exact same message, ideally in one group chat where everyone can see the others answers. You bought it market value and its your home. Your parents travelled and enjoyed the money they made from it and everyone was happy. Remind them you have been close for shop trips / whatever else you have done and that you find their phone calls and name calling harassment and do not deserve it. Then, in future, if it arises just say "I refer you to my text message". end of conversation.

They’re being CFs. I don’t understand their point anyway- even if you did as they wanted it would just go on the father’s care. There may well not be any inheritance.

Like i said earlier they sound greedy but also thick if they think its still all one property

they clearly didnt get it when it happend and have no clocked they might not gt as much as they thought

I've spoken to my sister who has spoken to our other brother (B). Apparently Bro A and his mate want to buy the 2 flats to rent out. They're planning to reduce the size of the garden, tarmac the larger part and rent out what could probably amount to 8 or 9 small parking spaces! Quite what B would get out of this arrangement is unclear (although sis and I both think he might be the mate). So ... 2 flats rented at around a £ 1000 and £1300 a month, plus the guaranteed parking spaces at maybe £30 a week gives them a nice income and they don't even want to pay me the full price for my flat and garden!

I've e-mailed A and B, saying that I don't appreciate them trying to bully me into selling my flat TO THEM, particularly when they've not been honest about being the buyers, knowing DH is unwell (and essentially leaving all decision making to me at the moment). I've also pointed out that the 50/50 split they wanted was really shafting me and if they continue to push the issue I'll get a solicitor involved. I've told them that I want no further contact with them.

My sister has also emailed them, saying that Dad gave his daughters joint LPA over his health and wealth not them and that Dads insistence that "his girls" look after him now makes perfect sense. She's also said that she wants no further contact with them.

I'm angry but also confused. My brothers have always been a little condescending but it never occurred to me that they might try something like this.