Page 14 | Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 2023-05-21T22:15:43+00:00

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness. My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone. Sorry, just needed to vent.

neverbeenskiing · 22/05/2023 13:35

midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 13:14

Even if the parents had given the op a house to live in, transferred it to the OP as a gift

The brothers still are being greedy selfish jealous and cheeky to expect the OP to give it back to her dad so they get sone of the value

Life isn't fair
Sometimes parents do favour one child

Even if that is what has happened ( no evidence to support that ) if it was a gift it was a gift , it became hers because that's what her parents wanted

Exactly this. DH's parents have blatantly favoured his Dsis her entire life, and cemented this about 10 years ago by buying her a house outright.
Was that unfair to DH? Yes, I believe so. Was DH hurt by it? Of course, although he kept that to himself. Does he feel he has some sort of claim to the house? Not in the slightest! Never in a million years would it occur to DH or I that Dsis's home could be sold to pay for PIL care in the future. That is her home, and any feelings DH might have about how she got it are irrelevant.

If OP's brothers genuinely believe she was gifted the house or paid less than the going rate then it explains some of the hostility, but doesn't excuse their behaviour. It's got to be shit knowing you're the lesser favoured sibling but that's life sometimes.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/05/2023 13:35

Pipsquiggle · 22/05/2023 13:31

@SeriouslyTryadifferentstory

But do your brothers know this?

If your dad has dementia and has been talking to your brothers, he could have been telling them any old shit.

I remember a relative of mine with dementia saying he was spy and helped free the hostages at the Iranian Embassy siege in London ............... he actually lived in Bolton and was a plasterer

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Then the brothers need to buy some big girl pants, pork them up and have an adult conversation with their sister, not bully her into submission.

LimeCheesecake · 22/05/2023 13:38

Send the email I suggested up thread with a tweak to add you paid full market value for the flat back in x year. (If they’d sold it to a stranger they couldn’t expect to sell it as a whole house.)

RoamingToaster · 22/05/2023 13:40

I'm confused why they're acting this way. It sounds like they don't fully believe you paid full market value for it or otherwise are just being so entitled and bizarre. Stand your ground and don't give in. You'd be crazy to do so.

ladykale · 22/05/2023 13:41

Drfosters · 22/05/2023 13:23

It sounds as if your siblings think you were gifted the flat tbh. I can’t think of another reason why they would think you should sell you flat that you paid full market rate for. It just happens to be below your parent’s flat. Would they be asking if you flat was next door for instance? They are legally 2 properties so it would be impossible to sell them as a house anyway? The council might not even allow that as it would be a net reduction in the properties in the area.

Yeah sounds like the brothers think you got it for free or deeply discounted, that's the only logical explanation for their request

saraclara · 22/05/2023 13:42

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 13:19

In this case it doesn't matter. My parents decided to convert the house to two flats with intention of selling the bottom flat and living in the top flat. They liked the area and the neighbours and didn't want to move.

I liked the bottom flat so bought it from them for the FULL market value. I haven't gained financially in any way.

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Then your brothers are off their heads. Are they aware of all this? The fact that you haven't benefited in any way from your flat having originally been your parents'? That you paid full market value to live there and it's your home in the same way that theirs are?

This all sounds insane. I have no idea how your brother can be aware of that (and presumably that you've been on the spot to care for your DPs, thereby saving your brothers that load) and call you a selfish bitch.

piedbeauty · 22/05/2023 13:43

Your brothers sound shit. Glad your duster is on your side.

If you haven't already, I'd tell them that you paid full market value for the flat, you didn't benefit financially from your parents selling it to you, it's your home, and you're not selling.

Why don't they sell their own home?!

It would be nice if they could act like adults over this too instead of swearing at you and hanging up on you. Dicks.

Did you provide more care for your parents than your siblings, since you were right there? If so, that should count for something.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Some people can be real arses over money.

whynotwhatknot · 22/05/2023 13:43

So basically theyre just after more money as they think your dad wont live much longer

cheeky bastads and quite cold

nettie434 · 22/05/2023 13:43

My brothers want to sell both flats and split the proceeds 50/50. As I own the bigger flat with its own large garden, I'd effectively be giving money to Dad.

Ha! Now why did I think that was probably the case? Not because I am a great mind reader but some people's behaviour is sadly predictable.

Bargellobitch · 22/05/2023 13:44

This is bonkers they want you to sell to pay for your dad's care home fees?

Pipsquiggle · 22/05/2023 13:46

tonyatotter · 22/05/2023 13:34

Yeah, but was that his cover, plasterer by day, MI5 by night!!

My dad has dementia, I know the muddles and utterly made up nonsense he says, its a fantasy land - maybe the OPs dad has said stuff to the siblings that has them confused over the situation.

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@tonyatotter

That made me lol - he was a legend.

Wishing you well with your dad x

rwalker · 22/05/2023 13:46

Great update it’s now cleared up that OP actually purchased the flat from her parents
the only thing to divy up is her dads flat upstairs

Newspeaker · 22/05/2023 13:48

Given your dad's age, and the fact that your flat is higher value than your dad's, the cynical side of me thinks that your brothers know exactly what they are doing - trying to use your equity to increase their inheritance. Absolute scumbags.

Trickedbyadoughnut · 22/05/2023 13:48

Call your brother and tell him you've arranged for an estate agent to value you his house so it can be sold to fund care.

Presumably his reply will be along the lines of "WTF", to which you can reply "Exactly" and hang up 😂

Seriously though, it's batshit.

bluebeck · 22/05/2023 13:50

OP is there any chance your siblings believe you were gifted the flat?

LadyLapsang · 22/05/2023 13:50

The only logical explanation can be that your brothers think you got a soft deal on the price. You mention getting a mortgage after all the renovations were completed. If the house was properly valued and you paid market or near market rate at the time, then I don’t see the issue. I really feel for you. Arguing with siblings about money, houses, inheritance is really horrible.

Is there any way you could afford your dad’s flat? I know a couple that gradually bought all the flats in a large Georgian house. They made a wonderful home. Otherwise, if you got a buy to let mortgage you would have more control on who lived upstairs.

Tanith · 22/05/2023 13:51

Since Op has made it clear that she bought the flat for full market value and her siblings know this, I'm guessing that it isn't the house or flats they're interested in, so much as the land - that big garden that is also hers.

I wonder if they had a developer lined up?

Drfosters · 22/05/2023 13:53

If I were you I would write an email to your siblings addressing all these points calmly and rationally detailing the timeline and the price you paid and that this was an arm’s length transaction and the properties are not connected. Ask them to clearly identify their reasons as to why they think you should sell and why they believe you are obligated to to but they are not. Much easier to do this in writing than over the phone.

unsync · 22/05/2023 13:55

Who holds the Power of Attorney?

amusedbush · 22/05/2023 13:57

He called me a selfish little bitch and hung up on me!

So predictable. These selfish, grabby turds always think their behaviour is reasonable and turn nasty as soon as anyone says no to them. Sadly my mother is one of them and there is absolutely no reasoning with a CF - they simply don't have the capacity.

He has basically admitted that he is trying to rinse you but at least you won't feel any guilt when you tell him to get fucked.

isitshe · 22/05/2023 13:59

Assuming your brothers aren't brainless idiots, they know that you own the flat outright, and theoretically if you did sell, the proceeds would be yours and your husbands. Why on earth do they think they would be entitled to any of the proceeds from the sale of your home, any more than you would be entitled to a share of the proceeds from one of their homes? Is it because it was once an entire house that belonged to your parents so they still feel some sense of inheritance entitlement to it?
It's mental.
Imagine of a total stranger had bought the bottom flat. Would your brothers still see it as somehow part of their inheritance? I think not, but because you're their sister, they think they can bully you?

Do they need to be shown a very clear legal perspective on this picture?

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/05/2023 14:01

Trickedbyadoughnut · 22/05/2023 13:48

Call your brother and tell him you've arranged for an estate agent to value you his house so it can be sold to fund care.

Presumably his reply will be along the lines of "WTF", to which you can reply "Exactly" and hang up 😂

Seriously though, it's batshit.

Exactly. He is a cf. How much care have your brothers provided?

MyAnacondaMight · 22/05/2023 14:02

Your brothers are grabby, entitled and unreasonable.

There might be a profit to be made in selling both flats together as a de-conversion opportunity. But if you don’t want to move then that’s that.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/05/2023 14:03

LadyLapsang · 22/05/2023 13:50

The only logical explanation can be that your brothers think you got a soft deal on the price. You mention getting a mortgage after all the renovations were completed. If the house was properly valued and you paid market or near market rate at the time, then I don’t see the issue. I really feel for you. Arguing with siblings about money, houses, inheritance is really horrible.

Is there any way you could afford your dad’s flat? I know a couple that gradually bought all the flats in a large Georgian house. They made a wonderful home. Otherwise, if you got a buy to let mortgage you would have more control on who lived upstairs.

Not a bad plan to buy the flat but only if you have a big buffer after. I’m a landlord and deep pockets are required.

MargotBamborough · 22/05/2023 14:03

Tanith · 22/05/2023 13:51

Since Op has made it clear that she bought the flat for full market value and her siblings know this, I'm guessing that it isn't the house or flats they're interested in, so much as the land - that big garden that is also hers.

I wonder if they had a developer lined up?

I think the obvious solution here - IF the OP and her husband consent to it and agree that there is a price for which they would be willing to move, is to have the top flat valued and put on the market, and then specify in the particulars that if any buyer would be interested in acquiring the downstairs flat and garden at the same time, to name the price they would be willing to pay.

That way, if say the top flat is worth 100K and the downstairs flat is worth 150K but a developer is willing to pay 300K for both, the OP and her husband can decide whether that offer is of any interest to them. But to be honest, I'd be very surprised if someone was willing to pay enough extra for the two flats together to make it worth the OP and her husband's while moving, and also result in enough extra money from the sale of the parents' flat to satisfy her greedy siblings.