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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

731 replies

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 21/05/2023 23:15

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

OP posts:
Pipsquiggle · 22/05/2023 13:09

CantFindTheBeat · 22/05/2023 12:49

Do your brothers think that your parents gifted you the flat, OP?

What was the commercial arrangement originally?

I bet this is the case.

Your brothers either think you got a freebie flat or a mate's rate flat from your parents.

Time to be transparent about how the house was split up into flats and the finances around it.

It's quite possible that your dad has been telling lots of tales to your brothers that he gave you the flat etc......

WickedSerious · 22/05/2023 13:10

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 12:07

My brothers want to sell both flats and split the proceeds 50/50. As I own the bigger flat with its own large garden, I'd effectively be giving money to Dad.

Dad is in his late 90s, has severe dementia among many other health issues and quite honestly could pop off at any moment. Any money he leaves will be split equally 4 ways. So by selling my flat and giving some of the proceeds to Dad I could actually be increasing my brothers inheritance.

Thank you all for your input. Its forced me to think properly about what I want to do, rather than just getting upset about my brothers.

Yeah,you're well within your rights telling them to fuck the fuck off.

Mirabai · 22/05/2023 13:10

LimeCheesecake · 22/05/2023 12:56

@Mirabai - I also will expect any inheritance to be split 50/50 with my brother - but I’m not planning on asking for a share of his house because when he bought his first house over 20 years ago they gifted him £5k, particularly as they gave me money towards my wedding a couple of years later.

the problem is the brothers don’t see the flat as the OPs, and are annoyed she owns it.

A house bought with 5k gift is a completely different scenario.

We still don’t know what the exact scenario of the OP is.

LifeExperience · 22/05/2023 13:14

Your flat is your home that you paid for. It's obnoxious that your siblings think they can tell you what to do with it.

midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 13:14

Even if the parents had given the op a house to live in, transferred it to the OP as a gift

The brothers still are being greedy selfish jealous and cheeky to expect the OP to give it back to her dad so they get sone of the value

Life isn't fair
Sometimes parents do favour one child

Even if that is what has happened ( no evidence to support that ) if it was a gift it was a gift , it became hers because that's what her parents wanted

Notquitethere60 · 22/05/2023 13:14

If you read the thread and OPs updates there are two entirely separate properties in one building owned by her and her father in their entirety.
Why would anyone sell both just to please a sibling. Don’t know the history but it seems they think that you got a good deal in the past and they think it’s payback. Tell them where to go.

KarmaStar · 22/05/2023 13:18

Hi op,I'm sorry you have this harassment on top of dealing with your dad's I'll health.
glad to read you have told them you are not moving.
I cannot believe the sheer cheek of your not so dear brothers!it's your paid for home that they think you should sell to fill their back pockets? C.f's x10!
Yanbu and don't listen to them at all.if they continue to abuse and harass you then report.

Nordicrain · 22/05/2023 13:18

Mari9999 · 22/05/2023 12:07

OP, did you and your husband take out the mortgage or was the mortgage taken out in your father's name? Is it possible that you were paying rent equal to the mortgage value? Specifically, who is the titled owner of the property?

OP has made this very clear. She owns her flat.

@SeriouslyTryadifferentstory your brothers are being massive CFs and are jsut concerned about upping their own inheritance. They are doing it now becuase they know if your DF passes away they will NOT be entitled to anything from you. Stick to your guns.

Swansandcustard · 22/05/2023 13:19

Do your brothers think the property actually belongs to your dad, op? Was the mortgage to buy the flat or was it for the conversion of the house into two flats? And then dad put your name on the deeds of the bottom flat?

It really reads like your brothers think you are just insisting on staying in one of your Dad’s flats, especially with the ‘find you somewhere to live’.

Rosscameasdoody · 22/05/2023 13:19

Not sure what the brothers think would be the advantage to this, given that the proceeds are going to be used for the fathers’ care. The OP would effectively be contributing part of her own home’s value to the care fees, then splitting whatever’s left with her brothers after DF passes. The fact that the two flats are clearly registered in their respective owners names and that the OP has paid off a mortgage, I don’t think CF brothers have a leg to stand on and I’d tell them where to go.

Original poster
SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 13:19

midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 13:02

What is an "unfair gift" in legal terms ?

In this case it doesn't matter. My parents decided to convert the house to two flats with intention of selling the bottom flat and living in the top flat. They liked the area and the neighbours and didn't want to move.

I liked the bottom flat so bought it from them for the FULL market value. I haven't gained financially in any way.

OP posts:
MangosteenSoda · 22/05/2023 13:20

Asking the same as many PPs. Did you take out a mortgage in order to pay your parents full market value for the flat? Or did you get a discount/use the capital amount of the mortgage money for something else? It doesn’t make any difference to your position, but I’d assume that’s why your brothers are trying to wring money out of you.

It sounds like the legalities are in order and, honestly, I don’t think your brothers have a moral leg to stand on either. Presumably it suited your parents to have their daughter living under them rather than strangers. I guess you would have cared for them quite a bit over the years and they likely continued to have use of the garden of the flat you own.

MangosteenSoda · 22/05/2023 13:20

Cross posted 😁

tonyatotter · 22/05/2023 13:21

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 13:19

In this case it doesn't matter. My parents decided to convert the house to two flats with intention of selling the bottom flat and living in the top flat. They liked the area and the neighbours and didn't want to move.

I liked the bottom flat so bought it from them for the FULL market value. I haven't gained financially in any way.

Show quote history

Well the answer then is clearer still, its yours, not theirs or your dads. You would be mad to sell it and contribute to your dads funds.

Stick to your guns - tell them clearly what the situation is and refuse to discuss it further, end of.

Sauvblanctime · 22/05/2023 13:23

your brothers are pure cf

Drfosters · 22/05/2023 13:23

It sounds as if your siblings think you were gifted the flat tbh. I can’t think of another reason why they would think you should sell you flat that you paid full market rate for. It just happens to be below your parent’s flat. Would they be asking if you flat was next door for instance? They are legally 2 properties so it would be impossible to sell them as a house anyway? The council might not even allow that as it would be a net reduction in the properties in the area.

Hankunamatata · 22/05/2023 13:25

So your parents converted the house into two flats and sold bottom one to you at market value.
Why on earth do your siblings think they have any say in your flat???
Tbh I'd be thinking about buying your dad's flat off him at market rate and using it as buy to let so you can control who lives above you.

Sugarfree23 · 22/05/2023 13:26

You need to make it clear to your brothers that you purchased your flat from your parents.

They have separate titles and are registered separately with the land registry.

Who owns the freehold, is it a cross over lease, you owning the freehold on the top flat and them owning the freehold on yours?

Pipsquiggle · 22/05/2023 13:31

SeriouslyTryadifferentstory · 22/05/2023 13:19

In this case it doesn't matter. My parents decided to convert the house to two flats with intention of selling the bottom flat and living in the top flat. They liked the area and the neighbours and didn't want to move.

I liked the bottom flat so bought it from them for the FULL market value. I haven't gained financially in any way.

Show quote history

@SeriouslyTryadifferentstory

But do your brothers know this?

If your dad has dementia and has been talking to your brothers, he could have been telling them any old shit.

I remember a relative of mine with dementia saying he was spy and helped free the hostages at the Iranian Embassy siege in London ............... he actually lived in Bolton and was a plasterer

familyissues12345 · 22/05/2023 13:32

I think it sounds like your brothers think you were either gifted the flat, or you paid a discounted amount. I can't imagine it being anything else apart from them being CF

Indoorcatmum · 22/05/2023 13:33

Get all your paperwork in order and tell them they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

What utter twats 😹

lljkk · 22/05/2023 13:33

They want to turf you out of your own home? Wow.
I imagine producing blunt documents to show the flat you live in was not a gift & they can... do one if they think you are gifting them 50% of the value.

mistlethrush · 22/05/2023 13:34

Some of the comments appear to think that OP was 'given' the flat by her parents when it is clear from her original post that she was party to the conversion and had a mortgage on the property - so she paid for at least some if not all of the cost of the property that she owns and lives in - so it's obviously not acceptable for her brothers to expect them to sell it and split the money 50 50.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/05/2023 13:34

I'm sorry your brother is being a selfish dick op.

Talk yo your sister, get her to impartially tell your brother he's being a selfish dick and you've got enough on your sodding ate with DH and why on EARTH would you give up a home you love so he can get more money when your father dies.

tonyatotter · 22/05/2023 13:34

Pipsquiggle · 22/05/2023 13:31

@SeriouslyTryadifferentstory

But do your brothers know this?

If your dad has dementia and has been talking to your brothers, he could have been telling them any old shit.

I remember a relative of mine with dementia saying he was spy and helped free the hostages at the Iranian Embassy siege in London ............... he actually lived in Bolton and was a plasterer

Show quote history

Yeah, but was that his cover, plasterer by day, MI5 by night!!

My dad has dementia, I know the muddles and utterly made up nonsense he says, its a fantasy land - maybe the OPs dad has said stuff to the siblings that has them confused over the situation.