Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

[SeriouslyTryadifferentstory]

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

OP you have stated your father is now late 90s so all this would have taken place when he was in his mid 70s is it possible he never told your brothers about any financial transactions and just told them you had moved in downstairs to help out?
As it was your parents main home I do find the split of you having the ground floor larger flat with a garden abit unusual as your dad was already in his 70s wouldn’t having easier access without stairs and a garden been a priority for him? Were your brothers offered the option to buy the flat at the same time as you or was it a private thing arranged just between you and your parents?

Both of her money grabbing brothers accuse her but funnily enough her sister is telling them to back off and leave op alone.
Sounds like the brothers have no legal recourse and are trying to stiff op out of her legally owned home so they can max out their inheritance.
I bet they've done sod all caring wise for their father over the last decade either and op has been on hand for the majority of her fathers needs being met.

I don't have anything to add just wanted to say your brother is a massive twat.
His response would be enough for me to go no contact.
Op you need to protect your assets, clearly your siblings are not acting in your best interests.

This is all speculative. We nothing of this, including any care, as OP hasn’t said.

Despite the care I’ve done for my parents my sister and I are splitting the inheritance from our parents 50/50.

I can see the £££££ signs in the brothers eyes. All they can see is the inheritance from the house as it would have been before the split in to two properties. They’ve conveniently disregarded op buying it from their parents.
They do realise that if you did sell it as a whole unit you’d get a bigger proportion of the sale due to your flat having a bigger footprint (the garden)
and they wouldn’t be any better off than selling dads flat.
Suggest they sell their houses and pool the money, see what they think about that.

But the op isn't talking about not splitting inheritance 50 50

She's talking about not slitting her house 50 50 with her brother (or plural , adjust ratios according)

If she did get some financial help towards her home , or help in kind , decades ago , then even if she sells her flat it shouldn't be. 50 50 split - at most the brother could morally ask for would be split that reflected the size of the gift
But if that gift was actually returned also in kind then why wouldn't that also be taken into account ?

They're batshit, and they know they're talking balls, and they don't like being called out for it - that's what I'm getting from these brothers.

If you lived in the house next door, it would no more be the same property as the flat upstairs. It's not a case of selling the whole house - it's a case of selling two independent properties. This means that either:
a) it will be bought be two independent buyers (with two sets of fees), probably at different times OR
b) it will be bought by a property developer with a diseased mind who would convert it back into one property and lose a heap of value in the process

"Come to your senses" indeed. Still, he's at least done you the favour of not needing to worry about offending or upsetting him anymore.

If OP and parents shared the cost of buying the whole house & then split it, then absolutely fair for OP to choose to continue to live in her home, and I struggle to understand why DB would think she's unreasonable

But, if parents owned the main house already, and part of it was converted to enable OP to live downstairs, I think that's a bit different. If she keeps the flat, then effectively her parents have given her half of their house. This might be legally permitted, but seems unfair on the siblings

Do your brothers think that your parents gifted you the flat, OP?

What was the commercial arrangement originally?

Given the op had to take out and pay a mortgage on the flat I think we can assume that she wasn't given the whole thing ?

Well he sounds like a real charmer...

This!

Ask CF Brother if he’s also selling his property and handing over half the proceeds?

I am baffled.

@midgemadgemodge parents might have gifted her the downstairs half of the house and she took a loan to pay for the renovation costs

@Mirabai - I also will expect any inheritance to be split 50/50 with my brother - but I’m not planning on asking for a share of his house because when he bought his first house over 20 years ago they gifted him £5k, particularly as they gave me money towards my wedding a couple of years later.

the problem is the brothers don’t see the flat as the OPs, and are annoyed she owns it.

I live round the corner from my mum when my dad was alive it was me getting the calls in the night me going down to pick up up off the floor me putting him to bed me doing odd jobs me nipping down so my mum could go out
be hand on heart if there’s anything when my mum goes I don’t expect anymore than my sister

Everyone may need to speak to solicitors here. It is possible the parents made an extremely unfair gift of the bottom floor flat to the original poster although a mortgage on that title only that she paid off probably means a large part of the price was via a loan. The parents then survived 7 years I think so no inheritance tax on the gift. If the other 3 siblings were not given a similar amount / value that is very unfair. However if the daughter paid market value for the ground floor flat then it is perfectly fair and no reason she should sell.

If instead the parents had an agreement at the time that the flat was transferred only for so long as they lived in the house or something like that - a mind of conditional gift the position may be different.

Xenia, aren't you a solicitor?

It doesn't matter whether this (hypothetical) scenario was fair or not.

The OP and her husband are the registered owners of the downstairs flat.

If her older brother thinks he has some sort of claim on it (based on the actual law, rather than whether he thinks the situation is fair or not) then he's welcome to spend his own money instructing solicitors. But all the OP needs to do is keep telling him to bog off.

What is an "unfair gift" in legal terms ?

The brother seems to think he'll get more of an inheritance if the two flats are sold together with the garden.

Which is assuming that a buyer will want to put the property back as a single house and that will cost money to convert.

But he is missing that Op owns all the bottom flat. So it wouldn't be a 4 way split. And trying to find someone who wants to reconvert it will probably reduce the potential market.

They ARE splitting the inheritance equally. She is quite rightly not including HER property in that, the same as the siblings are not including theirs!

Life ain't fair, brother hasn't got a leg to stand on, OPs name is on the land registry and shes had a mortgage against the title which she has paid off - no way the brother can do anything.

I am so sorry your brothers are acting like this. It is impossible to fathom how they can consider this a reasonable request. As another poster said, the proceeds from your dads flat will ultimately pay for his care, if that runs out then the council take over, there is no benefit to maximising the sale price other than if your dad were to pass away sooner rather than later and there be money left - which as you say would then be split 4 ways.

Do your brothers have a track record of this such entitled cheek?

If anyone called me a selfish little bitch, I'd be going non-contact. Who has Power of Attorney for your dad's finances?

See my post @12.25.

I would have said that you could decline your share of the 4 way split on any residual funds when your dad dies as an act of kindness, but as your brother has called you a bitch I'd cut him off and get on with your lives.

As and when any inheritance comes, either just keep it or give it to your two other siblings.