‘He’s so bright but he just won’t work’

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If he was ‘so bright’ then he’d know he needs to work to get results.

The ‘clever but won’t work’ thing is trotted about so many DC, but it’s self defeating. DC worry that if they did work hard but dont’t get Grade As, what then? So they don’t work, and keep the myth of their cleverness alive.

Meanwhile parents convince themselves their children are ‘very bright’ but [x excuse]. It all leads to poor mental health in teens as the myth and the outcome diverge.

AIBU?

People are tired of every single behaviour on here being labelled as a ‘neurodivergence’.

I don’t blame them. It’s every single thread, and means you can’t discuss what is most likely an undesirable personality trait, or poor behaviour by others, without being screamed at that you are ‘fucking ableist’ and ‘responsible for the MH problems of those with ASD or ADHD’. The posts are always absolutely vile and full of accusations, slurs and total venom.

There is no other topic where speaking to other posters in this way is excused, only neurodiversity.

It’s completely taken over this website to be honest and leaves other posters tiptoeing on eggshells constantly.

Like this post, just vile bullying, excused ‘because it’s defending neurodiversity’.

Is there actually anything you can do as a parent? I promise I'm emphasising hard work all the way, but DS in particular isn't doing it. He's getting top grades without, but I'd far rather he learned to graft. When I say he's bright but lazy, it's not a compliment, I am deeply unimpressed.

I don't think OP is correct. 75% get 9's? No. I don't think so. I think it's much lower than that.

much of the uk population is not very bright. Have you seen people being interviewed, mass groups. Voting on Brexit. Half the population can only just read the sun newspaper !

There’s nothing wrong with being lazy. Doing as little as one can get away with is a very efficient way to live life. I know life is more competitive these days but Mumsnet is obsessed with ‘work ethic’.

I have two DS’s and one has adhd and would be considered lazy but he’s just never fit into the school system and will/can only learn what he’s interested in. My other DS is high-flying but how much work he does, I actually don’t know. He’s always just got on with his work and I’ve never interfered. There’s only so much a parent can do. I encourage them to go for walks and come with me on days out.

My son did no work at grammar school. He had to be bright to get in. He was in the bottom set for maths. And yet was one of only THREE children in his year to get the gold award for the Junior Maths Challenge. He could not have cheated as the other kids in his class did not get the gold. Only two of them in the top set. He was very bright but did nothing at school (despite being pushed and shoved by me to work harder). However, he is now working really hard and getting his accountancy exams completed with excellent grades. He clearly has found a reason to actually put in the study time now.

My 8 year old DS is very bright but he is SO lazy at home with his work. I have to really nag him to read his book and do his spellings/times tables. Writing homework is frustrating for me and I struggle to even get him to write a paragraph some weeks. But it’s all in his brain. And he’s great at writing. So…

He’s in all the top groups and I’ve seen the work he produces at school. There is a lot of truth in bright but won’t work.

YANBU.

I was "bright but didn't apply myself" all through school. I was absolutely applying myself! I was working my arse off and no-one could see that. I was never good enough. I struggled massively with the perception I was capable of more when I wasn't and I a constant disappointment. It seriously affected my self esteem and mental health.

TwoFluffyDogsOnMyBed
I sort of agree, but then I wouldn't call someone lazy for putting in the effort required to get the outcome the desire.

Like I'd not call someone lazy for doing their job to an acceptable standard and not wanting to take on extras or seek promotion.
Same with students. If a student was quite happy putting in a particular level of effort to get results they're happy with and direct their energy into other things then I wouldn't call that lazy.

But if a student isn't putting effort in in class, their homework is rarely turned in, work is consistently shoddy and then a parent was demanding to know what I'm going to do about the poor grades and then starts telling me their child is "bright but..." then there's an attitude problem to me. Either the child isn't that bright (because common sense says you have to put some effort into class work), or is laziness and a sense of entitlement that success should be given on a plate.

I have just spent the week helping DS to revise for his first A level exam. He has been working hard since before Easter. To be honest it’s the first time he has actually done any revision since yr 7. He has coasted through school. Had higher than average results in an academically selective school. He did poorly in his mocks earlier this year achieving B,C & E but did absolutely no revision beforehand. He had flu over Christmas and slept for 3 weeks. Since he had done nothing he just decided to wing it. He’s having a gap year so if he doesn’t do well he can retake and does have supporting evidence for disruption of his A level course ( DH and I both suffered light threatening illness during his lower sixth yr). Not making excuses for him but it was not a fun time for any of us.
I agree with some posters that there are various reasons why bright children sometimes don’t achieve, but I suspect the OP has never owned a 15 yr old. Particularly one that went through the pandemic. My DS’s cohort were locked up in yr 10 ( aged 14/15) and released in yr12 (aged 16/17). Can you imagine just how damaging that is to social development, and for many, it has destroyed their academic potential. They have lost so much ground.
15 yr olds are difficult to direct, motivate and inspire, they know everything and refuse to consider anything you say is valid, and that includes the clever ones. One day, when they are in their teens, you are merrily encouraging them, they comply, they are successful, they work hard then boom you’ve lost them. You have done nothing wrong but be a parent. Some of the compliant ones make it through to Alevel then rebel when they reach Uni.
I’m sort of glad DS did his “rebel without a cause” aged 16/17, he is now showing signs that his frontal lobe is maturing and it has dawned on him that there is a future ahead of him. Something he couldn’t get his head around 12 mnths ago. His best friend who is almost 12 mnths younger than him has just hit peak “parents know nothing stage” just as he is starting his A levels. He is a maths genius and should do well but his mum has already accepted that he probably won’t get the 4A* predicted. His mum is a force to be reckoned with so there is no lack of parental support or motivation. It’s just all about timing and the teenage brain.
Aged 12/13 I was convinced my son was a geek and that he would do well academically but would struggle socially. Puberty changed that, he blossomed into a bit of a looker who was sporty and v tall. He has his own set of female stalkers and frequently turns heads when we walk through town. I would love to have the geek back sometimes but I’m so relieved that he has become a socially confident young man. He will reach his potential eventually. One thing I’ve learned in life is that you cannot helicopter parent indefinitely. The sooner you release control the better. My DS is on his own from Sept. He will have to find a job asap because the allowance will stop. I am looking forward to seeing how he copes.

If he was ‘so bright’ then he’d know he needs to work to get results.

Nonsense. Being well-motivated to do what you need to do in order to achieve results is not remotely the same thing as intelligence. You can be very bright and lazy. Or very bright and not give a shit about results. Or very bright and have problems which mean you don't function well in school. Even perfectly intelligent adults are often engaged in a constantly losing battle with their lack of willpower when it comes to doing what they know is best for them.

None of this has anything to do with intelligence. If anything it's about executive function and upbringing. I've taught many, many very bright kids who won't work. And quite a lot of none-too-bright kids who have done really well because they are ambitious, motivated, secure, and supported.

One thing is intelligence another is energy level/drive, I personally think you are born with these and they can't be changed much. If you are driven and intelligent you will probably fly, if you are intelligent but low energy, you will probably still do just fine, but nothing stratospheric.

I tell mine that if they want choices as an adult then they have to put work in at school. Less effort then less choices you will have for jobs/further education etc

I agree with this.

Additionally some people are better than others at exams. I know people who were very bright and very knowledgeable and worked hard but never quite got the hang of using their knowledge to formulate a coherent argument or actually answering the question. I was averagely bright (a lot less knowledgeable) but had the advantage of being able to string an argument together out of the bares bones. The examiners never fully knew what I didn't know. My friends also hated me for it.

Where I fell down was my GCSE science which was continuous assessment. It's all very well getting the top marks but it doesn't help you if 1/3 or your whole course is missing because you just didn't do it.

That some children are cleverer/brighter than others. Sometimes extremely so.

There’s nothing wrong with being lazy. Doing as little as one can get away with is a very efficient way to live life. I know life is more competitive these days but Mumsnet is obsessed with ‘work ethic’.

This is a point. Sometimes lazy is actually better at work too. Though ... I will work my socks off to find a lazy solution to a work problem because often the graft method requires lots of repetitive manual steps and repetitive manual steps lead to human error. But the main reason is I can't face doing it the graft way.

50% of people have a below average IQ ...

My DC are still tiny but what you're describing was me as a child/teen. School was easy, so I didn't work very hard at it at all and still got great results. It didn't mean I didn't know how to work hard or wasn't willing to work hard. Working harder when you're already achieving is totally pointless to me.

Is it possible you're feeling anxious as his parent and you want to be confident he has the ability/fortitude to knuckle down when he needs to? As opposed to that he actually doesn't have that skill?

I'll knuckle down and work bloody hard - but only when it's worth the effort and something I truly agree needs doing or that I want to do.

Does he have a part time job or hobby/passion? That's where I demonstrated my ability to work hard, because it was something I genuinely enjoyed and wanted to do. If he doesn't then maybe that's something you could suggest/encourage him towards? At school I coasted and got the highest grades, until I didn't... Then I dropped the subject I failed at. Fortunately the first time I ever failed was at Further Maths at A Level, then went on to get AAB in Maths, Biology and Chemistry. Before getting a 2.1 at Uni in a subject I enjoyed 😁 so there's no reason to worry for sure - not seeing him work hard doesn't necessarily mean his can't. And if my experience is anything to go by, it's not necessarily something you need to practice to get good at.

I've always been the same though. If I enjoy something you get 110% effort, if I don't you get 0%. There is no in between.

@RedToothBrush

Thank you. Exactly. OP is deluded. A small minority of children are really 'bright'. I don't know what the % is, but it's tiny. 5%?
It's like saying only 2% of the population, or 5% earn over £100k. OP says 75%. Fuck off.

Btw my ds1 is incredibly bright. Got A star, A star, A. Without even trying. Now at Uni, says he feels dumb because he's met so many bright people. But he's incredibly difficult.

Ds2 is bright enough, nothing major, not like ds1. I'm above average. But what difference does that make? Niche.

And 20% of London children leave school at 16 without having mastered basic literacy and numeracy.

Plus, what's wrong with only doing enough?

I only do enough. In certain areas I'm incredibly organised, but in other areas I only do enough, what needs to be done. How is that a negative? Sounds like common sense to me.

You only need so much. If you need AAA to get into Uni, then that's what you need. If you only need 55% to pass your accountancy papers to be a qualified ACA Accountant, then that's all you need!

Of course 75% can't get 9s. You're not being serious. What is the point of this thread?

As a parent of a child with ADHD, and wife to an ADHD husband, I find your posts doing a real disservice to rest of us, also dealing with the condition.

You are jumping on every post declaring "it's ADHD" which it could be...but you must be aware that many conditions have similarities, so it could be a number of things...or nothing at all.

Telling numerous strangers they/their DC have ADHD over one non contextual internet post from them, just dilutes the credibility of each comment you make. Then when people point this out, telling them they are a problem and need to "fuck off and do some reading" does not help the lack of compassion or understanding of the ADHD community.