‘He’s so bright but he just won’t work’

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If he was ‘so bright’ then he’d know he needs to work to get results.

The ‘clever but won’t work’ thing is trotted about so many DC, but it’s self defeating. DC worry that if they did work hard but dont’t get Grade As, what then? So they don’t work, and keep the myth of their cleverness alive.

Meanwhile parents convince themselves their children are ‘very bright’ but [x excuse]. It all leads to poor mental health in teens as the myth and the outcome diverge.

AIBU?

My eldest (14) is very eloquent and has an adult reading age according to school tests. Perhaps this makes him bright by some criteria. However he’s on track to fail all his GCSEs.

He is extremely demand avoidant, anxious, top scores for inattentiveness from all teachers when we were finally able to get his adhd assessment.

I care deeply and have tried all manner of things to help him. None of it has worked.

Now it’s all about helping him survive a totally unsuitable environment until he can leave.

It’s really stressful and depressing.

But this is why differentiation is so important. If you're not providing any interest or challenge, then it's extremely demotivating.

As a kid, I was never stretched in school. Nothing was difficult or interesting. Very few teachers had enough subject knowledge to inspire or direct me. Everything was so bloody easy. I stopped caring and came unstuck when I couldn't apply myself to new information at undergraduate level. Nowadays, I'd have been on the internet, but in those days books were the only source of information and I'd read what was available already. It didn't help that I was a working class girl and therefore didn't need to be 'brainy' like the posh boys.

No they dont. My brother is extremely intelligent as in has a very high IQ, but lives off benefits, cant hold down a job and most definitely wouldn’t describe his life as ‘fine’.

Oh yes, very much this. I never thought about it when younger but remember being very calm, I did to revision but it always came easily and I was never stressed. I could definitely cram 30 minutes before tests and still come out with great results. I did always want to get the top results, though, but I just didn't have to work very hard at it as my memory (then!) was fairly decent.

I agree that it's key to have reasonable habits and the understanding that it's about effort rather than IQ/cleverness. However, I also think that nowadays there is an awful lot of pressure on kids much earlier than 30-40 years ago.

The worry I have is that, yes effort is key, but you now have kids who are either putting pressure on themselves or being pressurised due to family/cultural reasons and spend literally ALL hours revising throughout their secondary school, no hobbies etc. They then go into certain professions (e.g. medicine) and then can't hack it when it comes to certain jobs (e.g. being in the A&E or surgery where you need to make quick decisions). So they then end up being stressed and/or end up doing something else or being fairly meddling GPs. And they potentially took the place of someone exceptional who would have matured later (e.g. at A-level rather than GCSE).

So, yes, agree hard work is key but with all the helicopter/pressurised parenting I think there needs to be a balance. Tbh I always thought the students I read about with MH issues/anxiety where the ones who always were the A** kids throughout their schooling but who, perhaps when at uni without the 'support network' of their family, flunked.

Yes and no.

1. there are children who are so bright they coast through standardised exams - therefore do v.little work but put in the minimum effort to ensure a high pass.

2. there are children who are bright but lazy - do the absolute minimum to scape a pass when they could be an ‘A’ (can see why this would be frustrating for teachers - parents need to be more involved imo).

3. children who are bright but need to work for it - have to be coaxed to do anything - maybe have an intrinsic fear of failure - know they won’t get an ‘A’ so why bother even trying for a pass.

Then they have the children who put in maximum effort, go that extra mile every day, but are never going to get an ‘A’.

School‘s not challenging bright kids is a huge issue IMO. Sitting in school for 6 hours a day being ‘taught’ things that you learnt years ago is boring and makes you wonder what’s the point.

@Soontobe60 sounds like your bro has other issues holding him back, sorry to hear that.

If he was ‘so bright’ then he’d know he needs to work to get results.

Doesn’t work like this. My brother is very intelligent, but has a poor academic record as he just didn’t/wouldn’t/couldn’t do the work. He is a very hard worker as an employee but can only deal with relatively straightforward tasks before becoming overwhelmed. We don’t know why he has the problems he has as he’s always refused to get any help or talk about it with a professional, but there is ‘something’ at play. You would not think he is as intelligent as he is if you just looked at his academic and work record.

Getting what?

OP said 'bright but won't work" that was it.

You leap on to say it's clearly ADHD and then i say there is no possible way of you being able to confidentally say that based on a fucking sentence which makes no mention of any symptoms of inattention, hyperactivity or impulsivity so it really isn't clear 'This is ADHD'.

Then you accuse me of contributing to the suicide of people with ADHD?

Fuck off.

But it IS a legitimate explanation!

You just don't like hearing it.

And that's tough. Get used to it. We need to break down the bullshit over it 'being everywhere' and make it a normal everyday conversation about why kids and adults are under achieving.

That way we can find ways to overcome it, so it stops pissing you off!!!

I was that child.

I just had no concept of "work". I had good grades without even trying, and when things got a bit harder or I got distracted, my grades went down. (not massively, but i went from a straight A student to more of a B/C student)

I had a couple of Ds in high school, in Art History. I had to either pay attention in class, or study for the tests outside of class, and I did neither...
Once I did, I had a great grade!

I knew I could do better if I tried, but I just... didnt. My grades were good enough for what I needed them to be.

Being told that your natural abilities meant nothing and you were intrinsically worthless didn't do me many favours, either.

''She's just got a good memory, she's nothing special' meant I was convinced that further education was a complete waste of time as there was nothing about me that could have suggested I would have benefitted from it.

she does the bare minimum and could be a straight 9s student if she applied herself just a bit more.

This is 75% of the population though. The answers to the exams are given by the teachers in classes, or by the books or by the webpage. A few students need to be told once but most students need to apply themselves and look stuff up and think about it a bit. If they do that, they can get 9s.

Matthew Syed wrote a brilliant book called ‘Bounce: the myth of talent and the Power of Practice’ about exactly that.

My sister is like this, naturally clever but put in minimal effort at GCSEs. She's lazy and has poor work ethic. Had she put in any work she would likely have reached her potential. As a parent it must be really difficult to watch your child sabotage their own future. My dad in particular wanted to save her from making mistakes but sometimes you have to fall to get yourself back up. She earns a lot less than all of us siblings and resents it but she has always procrastinated and self sabotages. Recently she received a reality check and has since started to progress at work. She's putting all her efforts in now, I'm pleased for her.

If you think 75% of the population can get 9s at GCSE if they just tried harder, I think you my face a rude wake up call in life at some point.

I've been coasting on my (academic) "brightness" all my life 😂

I'm incredibly(!) lazy but grasp things quickly to be able to pass exams with minimal effort. Not something I'm proud of and being lazy has hindered me in my life, but didn't stop me from breezing through school/uni and my career.

Bright but lazy really exists.

HOWEVER, in my experience hard-work does beat natural talent and laziness. Hard-working people have got ahead of me a few times in my life where my coasting just wasn't good enough for top marks/too spot.

top spot*

Well, it’s not really about me experiencing a wake up call, is it? It’s about how to help people apply themselves.

A legitimate explanation is also lazy, can't be arsed, doesn’t care.

It's not bullshit of people claiming 'It's everywhere' if people like you are jumping on threads to suggest a complex development disorder based on a fucking sentence that doesn't actually include any mention of ADHD symptoms.

Pop over to the thread 'ADHD, rage and violence' and tell that poster her ex who kicked the shit out of her couldn't help it because of his ADHD.

At least he actually has a diagnosis.

I never had to work to achieve results till I failed my Oxbridge entrance, a scholarship audition for music college and my driving test all in the same week. That was November 1981 and it taught me a lesson! Wish I'd learnt that lesson earlier.

ds 1 catches on to anything straight away and can explain it to you. Doesn’t study so doesn’t get the detail to do well (but when he studies he’s in the top few of his class). We are constantly trying everything- bribing, sitting over him, trying to revise with him (which ends up with us basically reading for him), also backing off. He is so chilled out and wonders why anyone would get stressed over exams.

Ds2 works his ass off, he seeks out help getting to grips with different topics then lashes into them. Gets very average results or scrapes. He also stresses hugely at exam time. Life is so unfair!! OP do you have children? Tell me you’re not a teacher, please, you sound too eye-rolly!

Well, we could maybe start by acknowledging that in some cases it's not about failure to apply themselves and that ADHD, rather annoyingly for some people on this thread, does exist so that they can't 'just apply themselves and that actually something more needs to happen/ be done to allow them to show their ability. They may be clever but just never to demonstrate it in a set, prescribed format but are able to demonstrate it in a different manner (which may be equally academic or professional).

It depends.

If a student knows they will do well without doing the work, AND they do put the work in where it's needed then that's reasonable. A bilingual student who is a native speaker in their MFL at school will spend less time working on their MFL speaking exam than a non native speakers. A student who is comfortably able to get 40/40 on creative writing in English isn't going to spend hours working on creative writing when they could be revising something else. If a student get through with flying colours then it makes sense they spend their time on other interests.

If you mean the students who are lazy, aren't reaching their potential, but their parents are in denial and excuse the laziness by insisting their child is really really bright, then I'd agree with you. Those children usually aren't that bright. They might be average or above average, but nothing stand out and over time they fall more and more behind as the marginal losses add up.

Omg. The prejudice and the stigma. Wow.

No the guy on that thread was just abusive. And I wouldnt argue differently.

The 'just work harder' thing is the nub of the ADHD lack of executive function though...

You can't just state that's wrong @WeightInLine

While what you assert may possibly occur in some cases, I was the child @janejeffer describes. I've never been out of work, no mental health problems.